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Workers Leaving the Googleplex

andrewnormanwilson.com

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Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#391

Post by gtirloni »

glenra wrote: post #201
patrickk wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The author's main gripe seems to be that contractors don't get treated like employees." I thought the main point was that they weren't treated like other contractors like the author was (red badges)?

My impression was that he's a contractor (under salary) for one contract firm while they're contractors (probably on an hourly wage) for a different contract firm. Why would he expect the two to have the exact same benefits package?

Your impression could be wrong so there's no point in arguing both cases. All the guy know is that both groups were contractors. Do you know of any law that distinguishes contractors based on hourly or salary rules? If not, I don't see your point.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#392

Post by gtirloni »

DanielN wrote: post #357

I'm sorry guys I must be missing something here. I figure that this video and transcript must have some deeper meaning than what I'm grokking from it as it is currently the top story with a whopping ~500 points. To my knowledge, cultural hierarchy is very standard within pretty much all companies regardless of size. Not everyone gets a company car, their own office, the same health benefits, or if you are privileged…

I guess the interesting aspect of it is that Google sells a image that the Googleplexes of the world are immense areas of joy and happiness where people have access to awesome benefits.. when in fact, what's the % of people that really that access to that?

Perhaps Google shouldn't make such a big deal out of its workplace benefits when there is evidence that it's just a minority that has access to them.

I understand even if Google wanted to keep its benefits private, it couldn't control how much the mainstream media gives attention to them.

Anyway, I hope to have answered your question. You raised valid points and, IMHO, it's just a matter of perception... people think Google is something when it's not (there area varying degrees of gray here).

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#393

Post by gtirloni »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #290

If I call a plumber, I want my plumbing fixed. I don't care about the plumber's work benefits, problems, or anything else about his personal life; I want my plumbing fixed; that's why I called a plumber. I don't have plumbing problems enough to hire one personally; that's why plumbing contractors exist.

The reality is that in the IT world at least, lots of companies hire other companies in "body shop" fashion. People work for them as contractors for long periods of time (years) without the benefits of a full-time employee.

I understand your point but it would only apply if these people were at Google doing their job for days or few months. We just don't know.. but the reality of most of other companies indicates they could probably be there really as 2nd class employees that are cheaper.

Last IT companies provide this kind of labor to Fortune100 companies all the time. It's really not hard to find someone employed by $Big_IT_company that has worked at $Big_Financial_company for years and years.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#394

Post by Ugarte »

rdtsc wrote: post #376
mekoka wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what it looks like at face value , but consider these facts and tell me your perception of this story doesn't get swayed a bit: - This guy was an employee of Transvideo, a company subcontracting for Google. - He was filming other employees from another company, we'll call it ScanOps, also subcontracting for Google. - Neither he, nor the ScanOps employees he filmed were employees of Google. - As per the arrange…

> sensitive enough issues that their badge specifies a number to call if someone asks questions. Nobody doubts that there are sensitive issues, we are just debating what those issues are. Presumably you are implying they are security issues relating to what they are scanning (Well because ... Google told us that). I read sensitive as an euphemism of "please don't let anyone know how much you make or the benefits you…

The two aren't mutually exclusive. My contract as a software engineer (for a major competitor of Google's, no less!) specified similar--I am not to talk to anyone about the work I am doing (which was legitimately confidential) nor, as I recall, my salary and benefits. Everyone knows the latter is intended purely for the employer's benefit, to keep a lid on compensation details. So what? It's not in any way an indicator of exploitation--compensation may be secret and very generous.

I doubt the compensation for those scanning books is generous, but again, should it be? Do people think that the mail sorters at the USPS are underpaid because they don't make six figures? The implication of this entire piece appears to be that paying less to those who do less valuable work is an affront. I'm a leftist, but I'm not _that_ far left that I think it's appalling that those who do manual labor or data entry get paid less than engineers (or doctors or lawyers or whatnot).

I guess I'm not seeing what the issue was. This Normon guy is clearly a cock. I don't personally think his dickishness is worthy of firing, but it sounds like he had a lot more interest in his idiotic "personal project" (which really is the height of middle class white privilege, yet he lacks the sense of irony to notice!) than in his work. I can see why some small video editing company concerned about a major contract would want him out the fucking door.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#395

Post by gtirloni »

jcnnghm wrote: post #160
guard-of-terra wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being treated equally to the people around you is a human right, should be anyway. Because being treated inequally, deprived of things people around you take for granted, can damage oneself seriously.

So if everyone is treated equally, with the same pay and the same benefits, why would anyone choose to work a hard job? What incentive do you have to spend years and considerable amounts of money learning a skill set when you could just be an artist or something instead? Sorry, but not everyone's work is worth the same. It isn't fair or equal, and it shouldn't be.

I think the discussion proposed in the article is around workplace perks, not compensation.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#396

Post by gtirloni »

jrockway wrote: post #95
reubenyeah wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if you work at a company where even the janitors get free lunch, you should get free lunch.

But if the programmers that get free lunch are working for below-industry wages, and the data-entry people are getting industry wages, isn't it the people with the free lunch that are getting screwed over?

I find that compensation means how much your work is valued. Workplace perks usually mean how much that company wants that the people working there enjoy the place.

For me they are two different things. Although having different salaries/compensation for different kinds of jobs is perfectly normal and is hidden from people's view by the privacy that is applied to how much people make..... the workplace perks like free lunch and bus are totally visible (how could they not be?) and create a social divide between people that once accentuates their grief/delusions/issues and contributes to make people feel "different" in the human level.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#397

Post by Ugarte »

jrockway wrote: post #385
bane wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right. This response is relevant to you as well. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2501121 Sorry for being uncivil.

Why so much backpedaling? You didn't say anything wrong. The article of the author is being an extremist baby, so you decided to be extreme in your response. Seems fair to me.

Agreed. The author is clearly a delusional moron. You could've been a bit more polite about calling him on it, I guess, but sometimes you call a spade a spade.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#398

Post by Ugarte »

dspeyer wrote: post #235
bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

You're getting a little mixed up. People with red badges (like the author) are contractors. The article is about people with yellow badges, who receive far fewer perquisites and are kept separate from the general googler population. Who are the people with yellow badges? The author never found out. And Google does not appear to have made the information public.

My understanding--and I'm an engineer, not a lawyer--is that many companies segregate contractors as a response to labor laws. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp.

The important point here is that if temporary employees are working alongside full timers doing very similar work for long periods of time, the employer (Google, not the agency) runs the risk of a suit like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp#Vizcaino_v._Microsoft.

Microsoft now (and I suspect this lies in part behind Google's various segregations of different classes of employees) makes an effort to restrict contractor access to various full-timer activities (like ski trips and such, as the author complains) and to ensure that contractors don't do full-timer work.

So this isn't some sort of evil conspiracy; it's an honest attempt to comply with US labor laws.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#399

Post by geuis »

AlexC04 wrote: post #151
geuis wrote: post #116

What first-world, over privileged bullshit. (Paraphrasing) "The yellow badges don't get the same fancy meals, backpacks, get to ride the multi-colored bicycles, or listen to authors talking for an hour". What utter non-sense bullshit. "Oh, its a good thing I got fired because I have to go back to grad school." "I'm going to talk in a post-adolescent semi-deep but monotonous tone for 11 minutes to talk about how Racis…

Despite the downvotes you've gotten (I know PG removed them, but I can still tell by color) I really think you've got a good point. I honestly felt at least some of the same vitrol that comes across in your post, but suppressed it for the purposes of discussion. In reading your response, I had quite a cathartic reaction. I actually felt myself relax. (I hadn't even realized I was holding tension - neat!) Regardless o…

Hey Alex, can't find any contact info for ya. Shoot me an email or find me on Twitter, geuis.teses@gmail.com or @geuis

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#400

Post by leon_ »

tkahn6 wrote: post #280
leon_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a need for mundane labor, requiring little education/creativity. Well actually there has not been any real need for that for years now. With automation we could replace all those "dull" work places. But the problem is: What do we do with the now unemployed masses? If we want to keep our capitalistic system that is.

> Well actually there has not been any real need for that for years now. Really. You think OCR technology is at the point of sophistication or expense such that it would be economically beneficial for Google to deploy such technology over hiring humans but they don't do so to maintain our "capitalistic system"? You think there's some conspiracy of corporations to waste money on unskilled labor to maintain capitalism?

See, economical benefit. There's the problem. I say it's possible but not with our current form of society.

> You think there's some conspiracy of corporations to waste money on unskilled labor to maintain capitalism?

Think about it and answer this question for yourself.

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