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US Government Continues Encryption War

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Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#51

Post by cesarb »

> Nor are we necessarily talking about the customized encryption used by large business enterprises to protect their operations. We are talking about consumer products and services such as messaging, smart phones, email, and voice and data applications.

Do "large business enterprises" use exclusively "customized encryption", or do they use the same encryption "consumer products" use? In my experience, it's the later. The biggest example is TLS: for instance, every business which uses Microsoft Office 365 relies on the same TLS used by "consumer products". The same applies to full disk encryption (BitLocker and/or LUKS), smart phones (large business do use smart phones, and they are the same smart phones everyone else uses), email, and so on.

As a personal example, the software we develop at work is used by "large business enterprises". When we added encryption to it, we didn't use "customized encryption"; we used standard TLS.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#52

Post by tsimionescu »

dandanua wrote: post #50
Thorentis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think heirarchy is a natural human inclination. It's observed in every part of the animal kingdom. But it is possible to simultaneously have hierarchy and autonomy at the lowest level. Subsidiarity and distributism are the only things I am convinced will work. Every other endeavour ends up being a free-for-all (that ultimately is self destructive) or a dictorship (that eventually implodes).

Hierarchies are natural to everything, it's pointless to fight just them. I'm specifically against subordinate relations like master-slave. In a typical firm there is a boss that commands managers, workers etc. The boss has the most power. But he is still accountable to an agreement between him and workers. He can't do "whatever he wants". In a very centralized government systems you can't make top management account…

> In a typical firm there is a boss that commands managers, workers etc. The boss has the most power. But he is still accountable to an agreement between him and workers. He can't do "whatever he wants".

This isn't really true for most large firms. Since people are dependent on their wages, they are generally subjects to their boss' whims. You just have to look at Amazon workers wearing diapers to realize that workers don't generally get a say, even if they are not technically slaves.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#53

Post by kortilla »

mythrwy wrote: post #17
ohazi wrote: post #14

I wonder whether we're going to get a temporary break from this encryption surveillance ratchet with Biden as president, or if it'll continue regardless. This seems to be one of Barr's pet issues, and he's about to be shown the door. Still, opposition to encryption rights has historically not been partisan, so I'm not optimistic.

Under Biden will probably be similar to under Obama. In other words no.

It depends. Biden is from an older generation and likely doesn’t view digital communication as an extension of “real life”. It’s just a convenient toy and when the “think of the children” arguments come out he’ll roll over like the rest of the boomers. Source: the many debates I got into with a bunch of old people angry that Apple wouldn’t unlock “a terrorist’s iPhone”.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#54

Post by dandanua »

est31 wrote: post #42
dandanua wrote: post #28

Humans are mortal. It doesn't matter if you are a dictator or a janitor - you will die anyway. But the institutions, the system, the culture - will stay for much much longer. Those who build a centralized system that can control every aspect of humans life just don't realize they are building Hell on Earth. Decentralization and fairfull consensus between every acting party, no matter how much power they have - this i…

Note that institutions are shorter lived than one might think. If you have become 25 this year, you'll have lived for more than 10% of the US's entire lifetime. 75, and you'll have lived for a third of its existence. Those institutions which are longer lived are usually subject to tons of change. Think of the imperial Chinese system with its many dynasties or the church with its schisms. And despite behaviourally mod…

Institutions may change their form, but not their purpose. For example, in USSR the judicial system was basically a tool to justify decisions of prosecutors and party leaders. Nowadays the judicial system of the Post-Soviet countries remains the same. It's a servant of the current political elite.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#55

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #47
Normille wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...We all know what it is: Thought Crime... Scotland's proposed new Hate Crime Bill would pretty much take care of that angle.[0] >Scotland’s proposed hate crime bill will penalise anyone whipping up hatred against “protected groups.” That includes people making “insulting” remarks within their own home, Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf has revealed. [0] https://www.rt.com/uk/504813-scotland-hate-crime-at-home/ [Many…

Reminds me of the discussion about the big tech companies filtering content... "Last October, Facebook, Google and Twitter were asked by Hawaii Senator Mazie Hizono to draw up a “mission statement” to “prevent the foment of discord.”" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/face...

[deleted]

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#56

Post by dandanua »

tsimionescu wrote: post #52
dandanua wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hierarchies are natural to everything, it's pointless to fight just them. I'm specifically against subordinate relations like master-slave. In a typical firm there is a boss that commands managers, workers etc. The boss has the most power. But he is still accountable to an agreement between him and workers. He can't do "whatever he wants". In a very centralized government systems you can't make top management account…

> In a typical firm there is a boss that commands managers, workers etc. The boss has the most power. But he is still accountable to an agreement between him and workers. He can't do "whatever he wants". This isn't really true for most large firms. Since people are dependent on their wages, they are generally subjects to their boss' whims. You just have to look at Amazon workers wearing diapers to realize that worker…

This is what I'm talking about. There used to be labor unions, also the right to strike and protest is a prominent part of democracy. But nowadays all those freedoms are oppressed. Those who are in power are trying to divide labor people and gain even more power over them.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#57

Post by petre »

suifbwish wrote: post #29
kebman wrote: post #21

As a matter of strategy, I doubt that developers aren't already downloading key cryptographic libraries out there in order to host them outside the USA. I think news like this might also encourage more people to program encrypted messaging and file transfer applications. I mean, who in here hasn't at least made a small cryptographic test with widely known libraries? The irony is that the more technology like this is…

I don’t understand how they could ban strong encryption when everyone is gearing up for quantum resistance for blockchain technology. Once you have a distributed quantum resistant system good luck on that. There are so many ways this isn’t practical. If everyone just traded back and forth weakly encrypted garbage data chunks it would be indistinguishable from strong encryption. Also you can encrypt something with wea…

They would happily throw you in jail for contempt of the court if you don't hand over the keys. Fortunately you have the 5th amendment in the US.

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#59

Post by BearsAreCool »

If anyone is curious why some senator called Graham seems to be popping up in every bill that poses a threat to the internet, its because he sponsors or co-sponsors most of them. On congress.gov you can get a nice listing of everything he's done recently [1]. In summary, he either sponsored or co-sponsored this encryption act, the EARN-IT act (more anti-encryption), the OCPA (make websites liable for moderation errors), and another seperate law to amend section 230.

He has also co-sponsored legislation in support of privacy of personal identifiable information, but not for the general population or anything just US Federal judges [2].

[1] https://www.congress.gov/member/lindsey-graham/G000359

[2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/471...

Re: US Government Continues Encryption War

#60

Post by webmaven »

zoobab wrote: post #44

You can't make 'deals' with mathematics. As you can't make 'deals' with physics.

> You can't make 'deals' with mathematics. As you can't make 'deals' with physics.

Reminiscent of the 'bargaining' stage of grief. IOW, can't make 'deals' with death, either.

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