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Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

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Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#161
post #4

Is there good coverage of how Intel became so uncompetitive? My instinct is to say this is just the natural result of the presence of MBAs who are trained to focus _exclusively_ on this quarter's results so ignore R&D investment and also shit on employees by doing gimmicks like hotdesking to pinch pennies. I'm willing to bet my intuition is wrong, especially given my extremely deep bias against MBAs and 'this quarter…

Hi, MBA here, not sure what "training" you're referring to. Certainly nothing I learned in school taught me to focus on quarterly results and ignore R&D. I learned to attempt to push ROIC above WACC in order to ensure firms are generating economic profits, I learned that we probably should capitalize R&D and include it in ROIC to show that it does impact value, among other things

> capitalize R&D

That's the problem with "MBA thinking". You can't put a dollar value on R&D. You just can't. Anything you do will be a gross approximation, and because the number is so fuzzy, you'll be encouraged (even subconsciously) to fudge it around to make other things look better, which will undoubtedly lead you to undervalue R&D to the point where it negatively impacts your business, but you have no idea why, because you're solely focused on dollar figures and not what really matters. Y'know, like developing the ability to solve actual customer problems in an exceptional manner. This sort of thing is very difficult to quantify, and any approach that starts from a finance perspective is always going to be sub-optimal at best, but often just flat-out wrong.

I see so many people optimizing the things that are quantifiable at the expense of the things that aren't, when the loss of the qualitative things is what's killing their business. MBA types seem to never get this, and the form of your reply is basically a textbook example of that.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#162
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> $120+/hour Even this would be a substantial discount for most qualified people.

I'm not qualified and get that rate

You would be surprised what you can get just by asking.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#163

Here are benchmarks of the top processors from each competitor: Single Core: AMD 5900X - 3643 points (+15% faster) Intel 10900K - 3178 points Multicore AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX - 88673 points (+130% faster) Intel Xeon Gold 6248R @ 3.00GHz - 38521 points By the way, 5900X is not only faster than 10900K, but also consumes less power.

What's the comparison when it comes to mobile chipsets? I would love to have a laptop (12"-14", light and thin) with an AMD CPU and an actually decent GPU, but they seem to be incredibly uncommon.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#164
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kodak gets unfairly picked on. They built their business by taking a cut from every single picture taken. There was nothing in the digital camera model that could replicate that revenue stream.

Except that the digital camera was literally invented at Kodak! What if they had pivoted to building cameras themselves?

They did manufacture cameras themselves, but it wasn't enough. Remember that Kodak was making money in film manufacturing, film processing, and printing. They were literally making money from every click of the shutter. Even if they built the best cameras in the world, it wouldn't have saved them. And the ability of any electronics company to make cameras from standardized components made it impossible for them to keep a lead in cameras too.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#165
post #4

Is there good coverage of how Intel became so uncompetitive? My instinct is to say this is just the natural result of the presence of MBAs who are trained to focus _exclusively_ on this quarter's results so ignore R&D investment and also shit on employees by doing gimmicks like hotdesking to pinch pennies. I'm willing to bet my intuition is wrong, especially given my extremely deep bias against MBAs and 'this quarter…

The interesting one I think about is if the current CEO is basically their version of Steve Ballmer at Microsoft. Not highly loved by tech, media or finance, but basically held the ship together long enough to enable Microsoft to figure out how to transition away from the sinking ship that was Microsoft Windows and into new markets. Basically he just needs to keep it afloat long enough for Intel to be able to find it…

Really? Because Ballmer was there from basically the start (employee #30). He held positions of leadership all over the company and quite frankly knew it inside and out. Agree or disagree with how he ran the ship he knew the ship and it was his life.

The current Intel CEO has been there for 4 years as a CFO prior to taking over as CEO. We know he can spell Intel... we know he isn't even a little bit technical (his degrees are business administration and MBA and just about all of his previous positions of note are as CFO). So basically he's going to run the company like a beancounter... which always works out well at companies that need heavy R&D to stay competitive.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#166

I'd be interested in an x86-64 processor that took the 1+3+4 approach of the Snapdragon 875. One big core with a super high clock rate and massive IPC, three smaller ones, and four that are smaller still. A desktop CPU with a single-core performance equal to half a normal 8-core chip would be an absolutely incredible tool for IPC-constrained applications like game console emulation.

A desktop CPU with a single-core performance equal to half a normal 8-core chip

This isn't possible. The cores are already as fast as they can be, so moving from 10 big to 1 big would only reduce performance.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#167
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The TL;DR is that Intel has always been a vertically integrated shop (meaning that they usually fab and design their own chips), and that is starting to bite them because pure-play foundries are improving their tech at a faster rate. Are you saying that vertically integrated companies are inherently disadvantaged because pure-play companies have a bigger list of orders and can spend more on evolving technology? The…

I think the idea is that the open fab shops just have a hell of a lot more work than Intel and greater economies of scale. Making zillions of mobile chips means big money even if the profit margin per chip is smaller. This in turn means more R&D and eventually they overtake the company that only fabs their own desktop processors and chipsets. In the long run Intel screwed themselves over by not leasing out fab time t…

>In the long run Intel screwed themselves over by not leasing out fab time to other companies.

sounds like Google who also treated their cloud/fabric computing as a competitive advantage to be kept to themselves and as result they missed the cloud business.

>their mobile efforts were short lived and seemed to be treated with disdain by the management.

classic. Low margin high volume future usually can't survive in the shadow of the high margin cash cow of yesterday that is still being milked.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Intel couldn't rent TMSC facility to produce their processors? Too proud?

In addition to the TSMC being booked and designs being fab specific using TSMC is a horrible sign for TSMC, basically showing investors that they've totally given up on their multi billion dollar investment. It would be a total admit of defeat.

> using TSMC is a horrible sign for TSMC

Do you mean "is a horrible sign for Intel"?

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay at Intel is about half of FAANG, can confirm. They seem weirdly proud of this and then weirdly confused and disappointed when great people leave.

This is a routine issue in the semiconductor industry. Payscales haven't keep up with software across that whole industry. The trade organizations are aware of this, but I haven't seen a lot of push to level the playing field. It's unfortunate, as there are lots of really fascinating problems to solve on the materials and integration side. The industry trade organization did make a snazzy movie to try to attract youn…

The pandemic advertising was prescient.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#170
post #163

Here are benchmarks of the top processors from each competitor: Single Core: AMD 5900X - 3643 points (+15% faster) Intel 10900K - 3178 points Multicore AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX - 88673 points (+130% faster) Intel Xeon Gold 6248R @ 3.00GHz - 38521 points By the way, 5900X is not only faster than 10900K, but also consumes less power.

What's the comparison when it comes to mobile chipsets? I would love to have a laptop (12"-14", light and thin) with an AMD CPU and an actually decent GPU, but they seem to be incredibly uncommon.

Maybe this?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15762/the-acer-swift-3-sf314-...

Or if going up to 15" is acceptable:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16153/the-acer-nitro-5-review...

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