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Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

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Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#51

Post by outworlder »

dx87 wrote: post #43
question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

I work at a tech company on the east coast, and the managers I've talked to don't like managing west coast dev teams for all the reasons you mentioned. They said they'll refuse to show up to meetings, won't answer phone calls/emails/slack, don't document anything, etc., because they think they're code artisans and won't do anything that they think is below them.

The other points are valid but...

> They said they'll refuse to show up to meetings

There's usually FAR TOO MANY MEETINGS. This is even more prevalent the more bad managers and engineers exist. Talking and assigning 'action items' is a good way to deflect attention from the fact that you have no clue what the heck you are doing. And bad engineers get shielded by the collective (as long as they can show some work done on their "action item", or indicate that they are blocked because of someone else).

If you actually have good engineers, they will see the meetings for what they are and start pushing back.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#52

Post by TP4Cornholio »

dx87 wrote: post #43
question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

I work at a tech company on the east coast, and the managers I've talked to don't like managing west coast dev teams for all the reasons you mentioned. They said they'll refuse to show up to meetings, won't answer phone calls/emails/slack, don't document anything, etc., because they think they're code artisans and won't do anything that they think is below them.

The west coast sounds like a paradise for developers. Makes me wish I had moved...

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#53

Post by phreack »

lkbm wrote: post #48
question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

> Anyone who's worked in tach a while has seen cases where a dev has just flat out refused to do something a manager has asked them to do. Why? Ego is the only reason when you get paid either way. I don't think I've seen that yet, but if it came up with any of my coworkers, it would be because of ethical concerns. "Hide the cancel button", "Remove the unsubscribe link", etc. Are you talking about people saying things…

Maybe it was an unrealistic task, like 'we've agreed to have this built in 2, so get to it'. If agreeing to such a thing means it becomes your fault when it inevitably fails, it's necessary to refuse and reschedule.

Or not, but I can imagine many exceptions besides ego that would be reasonable. If it's just a Rockstar tantrum, then you're better off firing that dev asap and I can't even imagine such a person getting away with it, though I've never worked in SV.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#54

Post by csharptwdec19 »

question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

> Anyone who's worked in tach a while has seen cases where a dev has just flat out refused to do something a manager has asked them to do. Why? Ego is the only reason when you get paid either way.

False.

- You know it's going to cause a problem and - You know you'll be blamed for it, or - You know you'll be the one to live with the 4AM calls.

Anyone who's been in any business a while has seen cases where a control freak has to have their way, even if it means running the business into the ground. And while -that- may be their business, your sanity is yours.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#55

Post by question000 »

TuringNYC wrote: post #47
question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

>> Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting anyone with a bad Glassdoor review!" What incentives does the manager have to get invested with…

Yeah, it seems so insane to me how little companies will give raises or promote from within, this is definitely driving turnover and building animosity against managers. I think that's a big factor here. I most upper management doesn't want to have commit to having few veteran devs when they can increase/decrease the labor pool quickly.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#56

Post by mcguire »

quanticle wrote: post #46
jevanish wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly finance has its own terrible reputation and problems, but that does not absolve Silicon Valley / Tech companies from doing better. They absolutely have the knowledge, funding, resources to do better.

But that's not the question. The question isn't whether Silicon Valley can do better. The answer to that is trivially yes. We can all do better. The question is, is the quality of management in Silicon Valley worse than it is in other industries and other locations. I would argue no. I would argue that the quality of management in Silicon Valley is at worst average, and is likely above average. In Silicon Valley, wor…

"Sure, you can quit... and go work for who else, exactly? The employee's next-best opportunity isn't nearly as valuable, so management can get away with being less competent."

Who are they going to get to replace you?

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#57

Post by petr25102018 »

question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

You should consider why it is easy for developers to leave a company. It is also because companies hire only people who already know everything and don't train and give chance to people that might need to learn something on the job.

Also, if companies don't provide incentives for people who stay longer, it is only their fault.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#58

Post by xchip »

ip26 wrote: post #21
justin_oaks wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If management is about authority then then the managing is already going poorly.

"Authority" can refer to wisdom & experience, e.g. "They are an authority on the subject". People like having leaders who are knowledgeable about the task at hand.

You are supposed to be the one with wisdom and experience, that is why he hired you!

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#59

Post by didip »

question000 wrote: post #32

I'm a developer and I admit the truth is that managers are bad only because developers are worse. Turnover in tech is extremely high and it's not because devs are constantly being mismanaged, it's because they are egotistical and capable of working independently and often just do without any real penalty. "Oh you fired me, well 9 times out of 10 I'll just be earning more money across the street, good luck recruiting…

I think the real problem here is companies unwilling to invest in their own people, both ICs and managers.

* Managers don't get proper training.

* ICs don't get proper training.

* No one want to train juniors and interns.

* Very few companies offer yearly refreshers.

* Yearly raises are not a thing in most companies.

* Small companies tend to offer crappy insurance.

* etc.

Re: Why Silicon Valley has so many Bad Managers

#60

Post by xchip »

jevanish wrote: post #36
bwanab wrote: post #7

In my experience everywhere has bad managers. I’ll volunteer that until I got wise to my own failings and quit being one that I was one of them. It’s a hard job. What we need is for our educational system to incorporate management training from the earliest grades. I’m not talking about books on business or BS like that, but teaching the soft skills that people need to manage other people. Irrespective of the field o…

Totally agree. Trying to lead clubs and student groups in college taught me more about leading than anything I did in a classroom.

What a subtle way to brag about your, allegedly, "leading skills" XD
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