Workers Leaving the Googleplex • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#201

Post by glenra » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:25 PM UTC

patrickk wrote: post #192

glenra wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author's main gripe seems to be that contractors don't get treated like employees. Does he realize that it's illegal to treat contractors exactly like employees? Does he realize that if Google started giving contractors exactly the same treatment, they could get in big trouble with the IRS and other regulatory groups, have the contractors retroactively declared employees, be forced to withhold payroll taxes on th…

"The author's main gripe seems to be that contractors don't get treated like employees." I thought the main point was that they weren't treated like other contractors like the author was (red badges)?

My impression was that he's a contractor (under salary) for one contract firm while they're contractors (probably on an hourly wage) for a different contract firm. Why would he expect the two to have the exact same benefits package?

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#202

Post by imjk » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:35 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

You need to relax a little there, Mr. Privileged Google Employee.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#203

Post by davidw » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:39 PM UTC

imjk wrote: post #202

bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

You need to relax a little there, Mr. Privileged Google Employee.

More than anything, simply respecting the 'say it to my face' rule would be a good start. "See a psychiatrist" ... "asshole" ... etc... are not really necessary.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#204

Post by glenra » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:45 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #196

glenra wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does it cost to let everyone ride the same bus and have them eat in the same place? It's not clear why this contract agency runs on a different schedule than the rest of the company - 4am to 2:30 or whatever - maybe it's just traffic flow, or maybe they work a lot with a group in a different timezone. But the fact that they do run on a different schedule implies it could cost quite a lot to "let everyone ride…

It's the combination of all these strange rules and Google's reaction in this case that makes me think the issue is slightly larger than bus schedules. They pride themselves of creative thinking, they hire lots of academics, even economists and sociologists. Some of these people should be able to figure out a reasonably cost effective way of organizing these things without making the place resemble a 19th century cot…

> They pride themselves of creative thinking, they hire lots of academics, even economists and sociologists. Some of these people should be able to figure out a reasonably cost effective way of organizing these things without making the place resemble a 19th century cotton plantation.

Wait, so being offered a job that pays reasonably well with decent work conditions but for which you must solve for yourself the problem of how to get to work and what to eat for lunch is now considered oppressive? On the scale of, say, being whipped for not working hard enough?

Are you suggesting that if Google provides any perk at all they need to provide it to every employee or contractor at every company they contract with, including the guys who cut the lawns and the guys who sell them stationery supplies?

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#205

Post by tessro » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:47 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

Wow. Is this what HN is getting reduced to, that the top-ranking comment is filled with ad hominem attacks?

Whether you agree or disagree with the author's motivations, at least be civil. "Nitwit", "liar", "What are you 8?" ... ugh.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#206

Post by kenjackson » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:50 PM UTC

quizbiz wrote: post #14

Honestly, I'm not sure this is a big deal. They're hiring unskilled labor and giving them a role at an extraordinary company. A rational management team wanting to generate profits for risk taking investors and generate new growth, cuts costs by eliminating benefits when possible. They could easily get this done in India or China. If they are really doing book scanning, I'm shocked this isn't being done in the far ea…

They're hiring unskilled labor and giving them a role at an extraordinary company.

Really? They're hiring labor, but treating them as if they have no association with Google. They might as well simply be contractors that work for Jim's Labor Pool.

But why would they take fast food or something of the sort over this?

I don't know what they're paid, but at least from this article I get the feeling that fast food has more upward mobility. I know at least a couple of fast food workers as kids who moved up the ladder and eventually have owned their own profitable franchise. I have a feeling there really isn't much upward growth in this job.

I imagine the cleaning crew that vacuum at Goldman Sachs at night get treated way worse.

Quite possibly, although they're also likely not GS employees. Probably contractors, often contracted by the building.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#207

Post by trotsky » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:53 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #184

trotsky wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that in the US there has been a significant anti-labor campaign, both in the media and in politics for at least the last 40 or 50 years. It's been reasonably effective, and took serious hold in the 1980's - many of the posters here have grown up in a world where labor issues are mostly only discussed in a context of how worker demands are holding back corporations. It's difficult to not have yo…

Oh, so people who view the world differently than you do so because they've been brainwashed by the media and politics their whole life, whereas you are able to see through all of that and clearly perceive the unbiased truth. That must be a heavy burden for you to bear. But it's good to know you're around. I'll be sure to seek you out for my re-education next time I start to suspect I might have been co-opted.

We are asked to have opinions on far more things than we can possibly digest and reasonably evaluate ourselves. For this reason, we outsource most of our opinions to others we trust - our family, our teachers, our friends, the media, the state etc. This is the basis for propaganda, advertising, public relations and the like.

The fact that repeated messaging on one side of an issue will shift public opinion in aggregate towards that side is well accepted. This does not contradict the idea that some people will reach that same position independently.

It does suggest, however, that when comparing two populations the one subject to just one side of a subject since birth will be more likely to agree with that side on average than the population subject to no messaging or messaging from the other side. This fact does not actually suggest anything about correctness.

As an aside, I understand this is a heated issue for many, but I'm not sure your tone improves the discussion.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#208

Post by Cherian_Abraham » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:54 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

Chill dude.

We call ourselves hackers or entrepreneurs because we question the status quo.

All this guy seems to have done is do just that. I dont think he deserves any of what you just called him. Who made you the jury and executioner here on HN?

Whatever you call it, social experiment or whatnot, it seems to have gotten out of hand and the guy got fired. And he blogs about his experience. Lets not read much more in to it.

As for people getting fired because of what he did, would you blame someone who blew the cover on a sweatshop and in turn cause the sweatshop being shut down? Google is a better employer than a whole lot of others, but these actions sure seem heavy handed.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#209

Post by jbooth » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:54 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #184

trotsky wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that in the US there has been a significant anti-labor campaign, both in the media and in politics for at least the last 40 or 50 years. It's been reasonably effective, and took serious hold in the 1980's - many of the posters here have grown up in a world where labor issues are mostly only discussed in a context of how worker demands are holding back corporations. It's difficult to not have yo…

Oh, so people who view the world differently than you do so because they've been brainwashed by the media and politics their whole life, whereas you are able to see through all of that and clearly perceive the unbiased truth. That must be a heavy burden for you to bear. But it's good to know you're around. I'll be sure to seek you out for my re-education next time I start to suspect I might have been co-opted.

Are you saying there hasn't been a significant anti-labor campaign the last 40 years?

Take a look at attitudes towards American Labor in the 50s-60s and now. Big difference, right?

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#210

Post by queensnake » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 3:58 PM UTC

pstack wrote: post #76

anonymous246 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, I fail to see the relevance of your response to the comment you're responding to.

I was responding to the suggestion that it "deserves exploration" simply because some disgruntled contracted employee was trying to cut his teeth on what he tried desperately to make into a juicy expose. Simply making an accusation or insinuation doesn't in itself warrant exploration of something. Insinuations about anyone can be made by anyone and they don't all deserve a response or an investigation. This guy has n…

I don't mean 'deserve' in a legal sense, just, when you've got captive Oompa Loompas in front of you anyone'd feel curious. As for evidence, Google took it, right? But you thought I meant /legally/ deserve which, sure, there's no sign any wrongdoing.