San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#521

Post by austincheney » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:50 AM UTC

mrits wrote: post #397

rcpt wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily a San Franciscan figured it all out over one hundred years ago so we don't have to wonder about this: > THE GREAT PROBLEM IS SOLVED. We are able to explain social phenomena that have appalled philanthropists and perplexed statesmen all over the civilized world. We have found the reason why wages constantly tend to a minimum, giving but a bare living, despite increase in productive power: > As productive power…

You can purchase a 5K sqft lot outside of Austin for $2,200 and we still have a growing homeless problem. I'd look more into providing mental health, relocation, and incentives to stay off heavy drugs.

Fort Worth is in the same state, almost the same population, growing just as fast, and has similar taxes. Yet Fort Worth doesn’t have the visible homeless problem that Austin and San Francisco do.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#522

Post by grugagag » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

NoRagrets wrote: post #449

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. There is a lot of elitism embedded in here. For one, you’re not paying the Starbucks employee so they can be consumers out of the goodness of your heart. They’re charging what you’ll pay because that is capitalism. If you don’t want to pay the Starbucks employee, you don’t have to. You can go brew your own coffee, but you probably figure $2 isn’t worth your time so instead you’d rather just pay them for the co…

Yes. I think more people should strive to be elite than ordinary. Or not. It is the elite and the wannabe elites and those who want to be wealthy and powerful that make the world go round. Ambition that drives people to stand out is why they are motivated to Create. That’s why we are not an equal nation of peasants. There is a reason tax havens exist. And why socialist Europe has Riviera and why we have Jackson Hole.…

Wow, you are a selfish person. Wish you could live tax free in a world where all the inhabitants is just you

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

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Post by philyg » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

To those who say it will disincentivise companies from new companies being found in SF: Perhaps we are in a situation where CEOs expect to be paid 100 times more than the median pay but this should not be so. In what world is this uneven distribution fair? Legislation more frequently should be bold like this and aim to create a world that is better as opposed to being dictated by immediate side effects. Perhaps it will take a long time for this legislation to become nationwide and perhaps fewer startups will be created in SF, but someone should lead the way in trying to create a fairer world.

If companies wish to renumerate their CEOs more highly they should do so by also increasing the pay of the rest of their workers as this piece of legislation encourages. Sharing the benefits of good performance with the employees may have positive flow on effects as employees may feel rewarded for their positive work and consequently feel more motivated to continue working hard. Additionally it increases the sense of fairness and trust in the economic system and perhaps in society as well as more people that work hard reap the benefits of their work.

Overall this of legislation in my opinion is a good first step towards making employee owned businesses a more widely adopted model and creating a more equitable economic system.

EDIT: discouraging excessive payouts to CEOs, encourages directing that capital back into the company. Large corporate payouts do take away money that the company generated (not only the CEO) and I think this legislation recognises that CEOs also need to be held more accountable (in terms of renumeration) to the companies they lead as large renumeration is not always in the company's best interest (even when performing well)

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#524

Post by opportune » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #377

macspoofing wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we've had the opposite problem: lots of highly paid tech firms moving into SF. Quite the problem ... the kind of problem that multitudes of cities and regions in the world are desperately trying to recreate. >This has changed the nature of San Francisco in a way that many dislike, including me. This is where progressives don't live up to their name. The nature of cities is constant change. Meanwhile the activists ar…

I have never seen a high density city have low rents. Mumbai, Hong Kong, London, NYC. Is there any factual and proven example of a city that has increased density and housing became affordable and cheaper as a result of more units?

The rents in high-density areas of Seattle before the pandemic were about 30-50% less.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

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Post by RhysU » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:56 AM UTC

dfinninger wrote: post #432

norswap wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that number is not right - probably lacking two digits?

You can get out of Austin pretty quick. 30 mins in some directions can get you out of the metro area. Also, 5k sqft is 1/10 of an acre. That said, I don’t know anything about land prices in Texas right now.

30 minutes won't take you from the river to North Loop. And even Redbud is slow in the opposite direction.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

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Post by snicky » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 2:57 AM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #446

ransom1538 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's insane to me that the city with so many rich people and incredibly valuable companies is such a mess, your telling me that a small city with an incredibly wealthy population can't figure out how to keep the tenderloin from being full of tents and open drug use? Or get some form of functioning public transit? Pretty pathetic." SF resident for 15 years until I left. I walked around and talked to homeless. From th…

Speaking as someone that lived in van in SF for 6 month before I left for immigration reasons: 1. I’m not from SF, I came there to live with my partner who was in school there but we couldn’t afford a place to rent. 2. I’ve never been homeless anywhere else and I wouldn’t have been homeless in SF if rent was fair. 3. I’ve never pan handled, but I didn’t need to. Dumpster diving is easy, there is plenty of free food o…

In terms of showering, I've heard some homeless people buy gym memberships to access a clean shower every day.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#527

Post by runarberg » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 3:01 AM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #508

runarberg wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually upvoted that because I glad you left this comment. It provides an essential perspective for the global distribution of wealth. USA is the richest and the most powerful nation in the world and it is a ridiculous power dynamic that has no justification. The USA cannot provide housing option for some of its population, but even worse, the USA consistently steals wealth from other nations leaving them impoveri…

Thanks. I agree. But there needs to be no justification. The USA does not steal wealth from other nations. Please substantiate this comment with an example. Wealth is not an indicator of quality of life. I have seen this over and over again amongst the rich and the poor. All we can do is live well so we are not a burden to others. The next best thing to do is help when we can. What I am against..on principle..is that…

> It’s difficult to empathize because it would make a mockery of the sacrifices that I had to make because I wanted something.

This is a really good and important point. I immigrated from one of the wealthiest countries in the world to the USA. Off course I made sacrifices while immigrating but those sacrifices were not nearly on the same scale as someone immigrating from a place of poverty. I can still visit my family regularly and they can visit me (even though they are of working class; if it were not for a global pandemic off course; for me it’s not that expensive even if it is a little expensive for them). If anything I should be trying harder to empathize with you.

In honesty me and my partner always had the option of moving to my place of origin, they could enjoy the free education we provide there and get a degree there instead. If I were not from a rich nation that would not be an option. In honesty we choice to live in a van. Sure we were underprivileged to the average San Franciscan, but as an immigrant I had it pretty good. And it wouldn’t have been the end of the world if we were forced to live in my country of origin.

We actually ended up moving there anyway. But it turns out that even though USA is officially pretty hostile towards immigrants, my country of origin is far more xenophobic then Americans are, so we ended up moving back (me being a white person probably has a lot to say about the acceptance though).

I know I didn’t really answer you in a meaningful way here. I really only said that your voice matters as much—if not more—as mine. After all I am a person of privilege by virtue of both my skin color and my place of origin (even though I’m born of working class). So to third party readers I guess I’m saying: Read the parent carefully, and understand their perspective. I might have a lot to say because of my experience of living in a van in San Francisco, but there are other people—like the parent—that also have a lot to say, and their perspective is just as valuable—if not more—then mine.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#528

Post by sroussey » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 3:06 AM UTC

vondur wrote: post #445

mrits wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can purchase a 5K sqft lot outside of Austin for $2,200 and we still have a growing homeless problem. I'd look more into providing mental health, relocation, and incentives to stay off heavy drugs.

SF has a $360 million dollar a year budget for addressing the homeless situation. I'm not sure what funding they may also get in addition from the County and State Level.

It was upped to about $600m. Good luck getting an audit.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#529

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

acadien wrote: post #438

GhostVII wrote: post #309

San Francisco's solution to everything seems to be to just keep raising taxes, and throwing money at things which don't work. At some point you have to realize that more money isn't always the solution, you actually have to fix your beurocracy. It's insane to me that the city with so many rich people and incredibly valuable companies is such a mess, your telling me that a small city with an incredibly wealthy populat…

"Just solve homelessness" - GhostVII Why didn't we think of that?! Thanks GhostVII we'll get right on that.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#530

Post by SllX » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 3:14 AM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #188

It will work out well fiscally because giant companies will suck it up and pay, but it looks like a bad strategy from a forward-looking point of view. You want to incentivize future growth too, and you want to make sure that 20 years down the line, you have the new FAANGs of the world giving you millions in tax dollars, because history has shown that the largest of companies can eventually die out, and tech is full o…

We’re still waiting for the Census results to hit, but there have been some indications that California is going to lose some of the choicer parts of our tax base between the SALT deduction cap, all the new taxes we’re looking to implement, laws governing the makeup of board rooms and of course the pandemic.

We shall see though, and hopefully sooner rather than later.