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Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

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Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#51

Post by dragonwriter »

krapp wrote: post #50
legolas2412 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that the divide is not rural or urban, but whites vs blacks, or rural whites vs everyone else. Seems to be away from the topic right? There is half the country supporting a candidate like trump because they are disgruntled of the other candidates. That was the point, and you don't get to wash your hands off the fact that the country is divided.

>You seem to be implying that the divide is not rural or urban, but whites vs blacks, or rural whites vs everyone else. I'm implying that race and class divisions are more relevant in American culture and politics than rural vs. urban, yes. As is right vs left. The narrative that the primary motive for Trump's support is a deep cultural anger by rural Americans against city-dwellers is entirely populist fiction. >The…

> Only about half of eligible voters even voted in 2016, and only half of them voted for Trump

~46%

> a slight majority voted for Clinton.

A plurality (~48%).

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#52

Post by zarkov99 »

griffoa wrote: post #6

People have lost trust in the system. Its pretty much the worst thing that can happen to systems that are not supported by laws of nature. Fictional structures implode once trust is gone. Financial systems, ideologies, religions.. Gone..

Yes they have. But can you blame them? The media, academia, scientists, WHO, CDC, the government, all lied purposefully and continuously during the pandemic. Social media is infused top to bottom with disinformation from all sorts of nefarious actors, foreign and domestic. It's a mess.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#53

Post by 341341 »

Given how divided the country is, we need an electoral process we can have faith in. Foreigners are shocked when they learn we have no voter ID laws in many states (including PA), and there are no auditable paper trails for ballots cast.

Any Democrat who opposes voter ID laws and other reasonable measure to ensure election integrity with canards about "voter suppression" is playing with fire at this point, and should seriously mull over the consequences of most Repubicans believing you stole this election, and will henceforth steal every other presidential election.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#54

Post by zenexer »

This post would be perfectly fine on HN if people were actually discussing the pros and cons of Facebook taking such actions. However, as it stands, it's turned into an abstract debate over which entities are the cause of all the problems in the world. That isn't constructive, and HN really isn't the place for these kinds of debates.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#55

Post by barumi »

uniqueid wrote: post #48
barumi wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let be real here. Facebook wanted to shut it down and then looked for excuses. Does anyone has any problem understanding the reason why groups actively advocating for the subversion of democracy through violent means are obviously and naturally shut down in a free and democratic society?

In Trump, you have a candidate who acts, speaks and tries to govern like the most reviled dictators of the past 100 years, and millions of Americans enthusiastically gave him their vote. So I'd say nearly half of America is incapable of reasoning about liberty and democracy.

I took some time to try to understand why so many americans happened to vote for Trump and I was left with the impression that the problem lies more with disenfranchisement than with vilifying and even dehumanizing scapegoats.

Beyond the usual conservative tropes of less state and stopping attacks on personal freedoms, I've seen Trump voters mention deescalation of wars and international tension and lower taxes. I've also seen Trump supporters criticizing what they perceive as lawlessness and pending threat of state-sponsored oppression, such as the demands to erode law enforcement. Trump supporters were also quick to point out that both Obama and Biden were behind escalation of targeted assassinations on foreign soil and also increasing attacks on privacy and personal rights doemstically.

More importantly, I've seen Trump supporters state they voted for Trump in spite of his despicable personality and failings, because they see in him someone who enacts the policies they want enacted although he comes off as kind of a loudmouth moron. Yet, they also state that the public persona is also very skewed due to all the media manipulation and blatant propaganda that is targeted at him.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#56

Post by barumi »

krapp wrote: post #35
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing that. I am arguing that krapp's claim (that "people in general have not lost trust in the system") is false. You think that disbanding the police sounds semi-reasonable? (I think that starting by disbanding the police union, so that they can't protect neer-do-wells in uniform is where to start, but that's a side issue.) Then you're (I presume) on the left, and you are losing trust in the system. Whic…

Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea, even if they agree that reform is necessary. The US is approaching the highest rate of voter turnout since 1900 - during a pandemic no less - that doesn't happen if most people have lost faith in the system. If anything, a lot of people who might have, got religion over the last four years.

>>Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea,

But that's not what they argue, is it?

I've seen calls to refund the police as a slogan that points out that it's far more effective to use resources on social policies that stop social problems from happening than wasting those resources mitigating avoidable problems. One of the textbook examples is homelessness, whose root cause is lack of a social safety net that helps people with mental problems cope with their condition instead of throwing them in jail. The other one is drug abuse, where it's far more cost effective to treat addictions as diseases than to throw drug addicts in jail.

The only instances I ever saw of calls being made to disband police departments were due to rampant systemic corruption problems affecting some police departments which are too entrenched to salvage, and how the US has already a long history of tackling that type of problem by replacing the whole police department with a brand new one.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#57

Post by gentleman11 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #19
gentleman11 wrote: post #4

There needs to be a citizen group called ‘stop the disunity’ that tries to get people to talk to each other instead of yell at your friends who already agree with you in your social media filter bubbles

What is there to talk about if the two groups assume completely opposite things?

Everything

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#58

Post by uniqueid »

barumi wrote: post #55
uniqueid wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Trump, you have a candidate who acts, speaks and tries to govern like the most reviled dictators of the past 100 years, and millions of Americans enthusiastically gave him their vote. So I'd say nearly half of America is incapable of reasoning about liberty and democracy.

I took some time to try to understand why so many americans happened to vote for Trump and I was left with the impression that the problem lies more with disenfranchisement than with vilifying and even dehumanizing scapegoats. Beyond the usual conservative tropes of less state and stopping attacks on personal freedoms, I've seen Trump voters mention deescalation of wars and international tension and lower taxes. I've…

Those would normally be serious issues, but it's either historically ignorant or irrational to deal with them by supporting a leader like Trump.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#59

Post by barumi »

uniqueid wrote: post #58
barumi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took some time to try to understand why so many americans happened to vote for Trump and I was left with the impression that the problem lies more with disenfranchisement than with vilifying and even dehumanizing scapegoats. Beyond the usual conservative tropes of less state and stopping attacks on personal freedoms, I've seen Trump voters mention deescalation of wars and international tension and lower taxes. I've…

Those would normally be serious issues, but it's either historically ignorant or irrational to deal with them by supporting a leader like Trump.

This is precisely the part that you fail to understand: some people prioritize not dragging the US into another war over having to endure the media overblowing tweets from a moron.

Those who are able and willing to endure the propaganda barrage to get their low-taxes, not-war, pro-individual freedom policies upheld and enacted look at the bipartisan system and see that they have two choices: a candidate which is behind escalation of wars and political assassinations in foreign soil, and a candidate that brought troops home and deescalated relationships with historical enemies such as the North Korea dictatorship.

Between those choices, if you value policy over tabloid propaganda and you are already quite used to see a candidate repeatedly portrayed in bad light, isn't the choice pretty clear to you?

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#60

Post by [deleted] »

barumi wrote: post #59
uniqueid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those would normally be serious issues, but it's either historically ignorant or irrational to deal with them by supporting a leader like Trump.

This is precisely the part that you fail to understand: some people prioritize not dragging the US into another war over having to endure the media overblowing tweets from a moron. Those who are able and willing to endure the propaganda barrage to get their low-taxes, not-war, pro-individual freedom policies upheld and enacted look at the bipartisan system and see that they have two choices: a candidate which is behi…

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