Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

onezero.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#41

Post by barumi »

cybert00th wrote: post #5
mmastrac wrote: post #2

"On Thursday afternoon, Facebook banned the group on the basis of attempting to delegitimize the election process, and its role in potentially instigating physical violence." No shit. Democracy is hanging by a thread in the US right now, with a president trying to shut down the democratic count and vote counters fearing for their life from crazies on the right. This is the right move.

If you look closely you'll find that group is trying to draw attention to election irregularities. Facebook is not an arbiter of truth, it's a platform for staying in contact with others. And as such shouldn't have an opinion either way. Once it steps outside of that role it's on a hiding to nothing as all sides will find fault - as they are.

> If you look closely you'll find that group is trying to draw attention to election irregularities.

Have they actually pointed any irregularity?

I see a lot of Trump fanatics parroting blatantly false and baseless claims involving all sorts of convenient irregularities, but so far I've seen zero actual evidence supporting any of the claims.

If there is indeed a massive wave of election fraud then where's the evidence?

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross »

PopsiclePete wrote: post #24
krapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

Roughly 50% of voters in this election voted for Trump. His approval rating amongst his own voters is in the high 90%'s. If Trump is saying that the election is fraudulent and undermining the Democratic institutions of this country, then by definition all of his supporters are complicit. How is 50% of a nation's eligible voting population thinking that their future government is illegitimate not a societal failure? Y…

> How is 50% of a nation's eligible voting population thinking that their future government is illegitimate not a societal failure?

That’s a leap. Voters aren’t that ideologically coherent. A voter can vote for Trump, approve of Trump and not believe his every word about the electoral system.

If anything, their voting for Trump implicitly endorsed it.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#43

Post by krapp »

legolas2412 wrote: post #37
krapp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I'm trying to get across is that this specific mistrust isn't organic, it's driven by political propaganda.

griffoa was arguing that people have lost trust in the system. Whether is it organically arosen from disagreement with the opposite side, or disinformation from political propaganda is a separate topic. It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country.

>It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country.

There is no "rural half" and "urban half." Trump's rural support is primarily from white voters, but his support among other demographics is far lower. Black people seem to be voting for Biden in droves this time, and not all of them are in cities. And per capita, the urban half is closer to 80% versus the rural 20%.

The narrative of "urban vs. rural" is populist propaganda, intended to imply that a solid half of the US supports Trump and that he represents the entirety of "rural" American identity, which isn't true.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#44

Post by jfim »

krapp wrote: post #35
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing that. I am arguing that krapp's claim (that "people in general have not lost trust in the system") is false. You think that disbanding the police sounds semi-reasonable? (I think that starting by disbanding the police union, so that they can't protect neer-do-wells in uniform is where to start, but that's a side issue.) Then you're (I presume) on the left, and you are losing trust in the system. Whic…

Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea, even if they agree that reform is necessary. The US is approaching the highest rate of voter turnout since 1900 - during a pandemic no less - that doesn't happen if most people have lost faith in the system. If anything, a lot of people who might have, got religion over the last four years.

One can have no faith in the system yet still vote. The turnout in this election is driven by the large polarization of the electorate ("the other side will do unspeakable things if you don't vote to save America!"), not by trust in the system.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#45

Post by zepto »

krapp wrote: post #43
legolas2412 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

griffoa was arguing that people have lost trust in the system. Whether is it organically arosen from disagreement with the opposite side, or disinformation from political propaganda is a separate topic. It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country.

>It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country. There is no "rural half" and "urban half." Trump's rural support is primarily from white voters, but his support among other demographics is far lower. Black people seem to be voting for Biden in droves this time, and not all of them are in cities. And per capita, the urban half is clos…

Trump had huge support amongst Hispanic voters this time around.

Also, urban vs rural may be propaganda, but it’s also simply true from a statistical point of view.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#46

Post by AnimalMuppet »

krapp wrote: post #35
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing that. I am arguing that krapp's claim (that "people in general have not lost trust in the system") is false. You think that disbanding the police sounds semi-reasonable? (I think that starting by disbanding the police union, so that they can't protect neer-do-wells in uniform is where to start, but that's a side issue.) Then you're (I presume) on the left, and you are losing trust in the system. Whic…

Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea, even if they agree that reform is necessary. The US is approaching the highest rate of voter turnout since 1900 - during a pandemic no less - that doesn't happen if most people have lost faith in the system. If anything, a lot of people who might have, got religion over the last four years.

We seem to be arguing at cross purposes. I'm talking about people (as are most of the others here), and (I think) you're talking about political parties. (And you always have been in this thread, so my initial reply to you was where things went a bit sideways.)

But I think you're still wrong. The way the Democratic Party dealt with Bernie Sanders (twice) is not the sign of a party that believes in the system.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#47

Post by zepto »

noch wrote: post #40
gentleman11 wrote: post #4

There needs to be a citizen group called ‘stop the disunity’ that tries to get people to talk to each other instead of yell at your friends who already agree with you in your social media filter bubbles

> There needs to be a citizen group called ‘stop the disunity’ that tries to get people to talk to each other There was a serious attempt at this in https://articlesofunity.org/ It was promptly banned from twitter and its founder's account was blocked on Facebook.

Why was it banned?

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#48

Post by uniqueid »

barumi wrote: post #36
disown wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let be real here. Facebook wanted to shut it down and then looked for excuses. Violence, hate speech, etc. They would have found whatever they were looking for. This is pretty much the standard big tech M.O. No amount of calling for "violence" will shut down pages they like. Also, doesn't this just incentivize political adversaries to join groups they don't like and make threats just to have pages shut down? Sadly, t…

> Let be real here. Facebook wanted to shut it down and then looked for excuses. Does anyone has any problem understanding the reason why groups actively advocating for the subversion of democracy through violent means are obviously and naturally shut down in a free and democratic society?

In Trump, you have a candidate who acts, speaks and tries to govern like the most reviled dictators of the past 100 years, and millions of Americans enthusiastically gave him their vote. So I'd say nearly half of America is incapable of reasoning about liberty and democracy.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#49

Post by legolas2412 »

krapp wrote: post #43
legolas2412 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

griffoa was arguing that people have lost trust in the system. Whether is it organically arosen from disagreement with the opposite side, or disinformation from political propaganda is a separate topic. It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country.

>It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country. There is no "rural half" and "urban half." Trump's rural support is primarily from white voters, but his support among other demographics is far lower. Black people seem to be voting for Biden in droves this time, and not all of them are in cities. And per capita, the urban half is clos…

You seem to be implying that the divide is not rural or urban, but whites vs blacks, or rural whites vs everyone else.

Seems to be away from the topic right? There is half the country supporting a candidate like trump because they are disgruntled of the other candidates. That was the point, and you don't get to wash your hands off the fact that the country is divided.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#50

Post by krapp »

legolas2412 wrote: post #49
krapp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It does not change the fact that america is a divided country where the rural half has lost trust in the urban half of the country. There is no "rural half" and "urban half." Trump's rural support is primarily from white voters, but his support among other demographics is far lower. Black people seem to be voting for Biden in droves this time, and not all of them are in cities. And per capita, the urban half is clos…

You seem to be implying that the divide is not rural or urban, but whites vs blacks, or rural whites vs everyone else. Seems to be away from the topic right? There is half the country supporting a candidate like trump because they are disgruntled of the other candidates. That was the point, and you don't get to wash your hands off the fact that the country is divided.

>You seem to be implying that the divide is not rural or urban, but whites vs blacks, or rural whites vs everyone else.

I'm implying that race and class divisions are more relevant in American culture and politics than rural vs. urban, yes. As is right vs left. The narrative that the primary motive for Trump's support is a deep cultural anger by rural Americans against city-dwellers is entirely populist fiction.

>There is half the country supporting a candidate like trump because they are disgruntled of the other candidates.

Only about half of eligible voters even voted in 2016, and only half of them voted for Trump, a slight majority voted for Clinton. And eligible voters comprise about a third of the total population. Even if you took for granted that all rural voters support Trump, and all urban voters don't, Trump supporters would still be in the minority.

>and you don't get to wash your hands off the fact that the country is divided

Are you trying to imply there's blood on my hands? What precisely are you implying that I should be ashamed of?

Your increasingly accusatory tone makes me not want to continue this conversation further.

Post reply on HN