Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#21

Post by krapp » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

griffoa wrote: post #6

People have lost trust in the system. Its pretty much the worst thing that can happen to systems that are not supported by laws of nature. Fictional structures implode once trust is gone. Financial systems, ideologies, religions.. Gone..

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies[0] and Democrats burning Trump ballots[1] to now calling on state legislatures to override the election through faithless electors[2]. This after all of the vote suppression efforts they've been undertaking prior to the election[3], implicating massive Democratic voter fraud and condemning mail-in ballots (I wonder why so many of them seem to be for Biden...), implicating Biden as a pedophile, the whole thing with his son's laptop, and of course the states doing their typical voter suppression regime.

This is not a societal issue, people in general have not lost trust in the system. This election has seen more engagement than any election in recent history. One political party has been trying to undermine the system and sow mistrust within its own ranks in order to maintain political power.

[0]https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/05/sharpie-ballots-tru...

[1]https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/business/ballot-burning-fake-...

[2]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/11/donald-trump-jr...

[3]https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/02/politics/ben-ginsberg-voter-s...

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#22

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #21

griffoa wrote: post #6

People have lost trust in the system. Its pretty much the worst thing that can happen to systems that are not supported by laws of nature. Fictional structures implode once trust is gone. Financial systems, ideologies, religions.. Gone..

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

Disagree. I would say that even antifa is a loss of trust in the system - they don't believe that the legal and political systems will do the job of containing fascism, so they have to take it to the streets.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#23

Post by op00to » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #10

I wonder what the percentage of people calling for violence was. The article says there were 300k group members, and FB only said that "some" were calling for violence. You can find "some" people calling for violence in any group, so I'd like to know what the difference is here (regardless of whether or not the group has legitimate complaints).

> You can find "some" people calling for violence in any group

Uh, no, you can not.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#24

Post by PopsiclePete » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #21

griffoa wrote: post #6

People have lost trust in the system. Its pretty much the worst thing that can happen to systems that are not supported by laws of nature. Fictional structures implode once trust is gone. Financial systems, ideologies, religions.. Gone..

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

Roughly 50% of voters in this election voted for Trump. His approval rating amongst his own voters is in the high 90%'s. If Trump is saying that the election is fraudulent and undermining the Democratic institutions of this country, then by definition all of his supporters are complicit.

How is 50% of a nation's eligible voting population thinking that their future government is illegitimate not a societal failure?

You gotta hand it to Putin. Two more election cycles like this and the US is toast and he never had to fire. a single shot. Turns out all you need to do is weaponize social media and use it against a country with low education standards like the US and you win.

Meanwhile we are building multi-billion super-carriers and investing in stealth technology and all Putin needs is a troll farm in St Petersburg whispering that America's biggest threat is BLM, Socialists and Obama/Biden/Democratic boogeyman.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#25

Post by PopsiclePete » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #22

krapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

Disagree. I would say that even antifa is a loss of trust in the system - they don't believe that the legal and political systems will do the job of containing fascism, so they have to take it to the streets.

Do you blame them? How many cops need to be exonerated for the blatant murder of our fellow citizens before "disband the police" actually starts sounding semi-reasonable?

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#26

Post by disown » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #21

griffoa wrote: post #6

People have lost trust in the system. Its pretty much the worst thing that can happen to systems that are not supported by laws of nature. Fictional structures implode once trust is gone. Financial systems, ideologies, religions.. Gone..

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

"Hillary Clinton warns of Trump trying to ‘sneak or steal his way’ to a second term"

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/19/hillary-clinton-dnc...

Every side accuses the other side of stealing the election. It's pretty much an american tradition. I bet in 2016, you were screaming at the top of your lungs that "Trump stole the election".

> One political party has been trying to undermine the system and sow mistrust within its own ranks in order to maintain political power.

Are you claiming that the republican and democratic parties are one and the same? Because you would be right.

I love all the democratic operatives here accusing Trump of delegitimizing the election process when that's all they've been doing the past 4 years. Now, it's the republican side's turn I guess.

Hypocrisy is the ugliest human trait.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#27

Post by krapp » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

disown wrote: post #26

krapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

"Hillary Clinton warns of Trump trying to ‘sneak or steal his way’ to a second term" https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/19/hillary-clinton-dnc... Every side accuses the other side of stealing the election. It's pretty much an american tradition. I bet in 2016, you were screaming at the top of your lungs that "Trump stole the election". > One political party has been trying to undermine the system and sow mistrust…

>I bet in 2016, you were screaming at the top of your lungs that "Trump stole the election".

Actually, no. But your liberal strawman is as expected as it is tedious.

No, the "both-sides are equal" thing isn't going to work. On the one hand, you have a quote by Hillary Clinton which is proving kind of correct in hindsight, on the other, literal armed mobs of Trump supporters threatening to stop the counting of votes by force, lawsuits, attempts to "override" the vote, and hoaxes perpetrated by Trump's own family.

These things are not equal.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#28

Post by disown » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #10

I wonder what the percentage of people calling for violence was. The article says there were 300k group members, and FB only said that "some" were calling for violence. You can find "some" people calling for violence in any group, so I'd like to know what the difference is here (regardless of whether or not the group has legitimate complaints).

Let be real here. Facebook wanted to shut it down and then looked for excuses. Violence, hate speech, etc. They would have found whatever they were looking for. This is pretty much the standard big tech M.O. No amount of calling for "violence" will shut down pages they like.

Also, doesn't this just incentivize political adversaries to join groups they don't like and make threats just to have pages shut down?

Sadly, this is just going to add gasoline to the fire. It's just going to antagonize and rile up these people more than anything.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#29

Post by entropea » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #22

krapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... this is exclusively Trump and his supporters trying desperately to de-legitimize the election by accusing Democrats of fraud despite no evidence of it - a tactic that's been in their playbook since Trump accused them of trying to "rig the election" in 2016. They've done everything from threaten to sue to showing up with armed mobs and harassing vote counters to spreading conspiracy theories about black sharpies…

Disagree. I would say that even antifa is a loss of trust in the system - they don't believe that the legal and political systems will do the job of containing fascism, so they have to take it to the streets.

I agree with you. I watched a Vice documentary yesterday about a reporter going to Lauren Boebert rallys and everyone had just lost trust in the system, clear as day when she interviewed them. They know their politicians are corrupt, they know the business people are corrupt, they know the politicians are corrupt. They want normal everyday people or small local business owners running things.

The slowly increasing economic far-left & antifa are just a complete loss in faith of our system and the systems such as voting inside it.

Re: Facebook Shuts Down ‘Stop the Steal’ Group

#30

Post by disown » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #27

disown wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hillary Clinton warns of Trump trying to ‘sneak or steal his way’ to a second term" https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/19/hillary-clinton-dnc... Every side accuses the other side of stealing the election. It's pretty much an american tradition. I bet in 2016, you were screaming at the top of your lungs that "Trump stole the election". > One political party has been trying to undermine the system and sow mistrust…

>I bet in 2016, you were screaming at the top of your lungs that "Trump stole the election". Actually, no. But your liberal strawman is as expected as it is tedious. No, the "both-sides are equal" thing isn't going to work. On the one hand, you have a quote by Hillary Clinton which is proving kind of correct in hindsight, on the other, literal armed mobs of Trump supporters threatening to stop the counting of votes b…

> Actually, no. But your liberal strawman is as expected as it is tedious.

Not calling you are liar, but yours was the easiest lie I've ever spotted. You didn't think he stole? You didn't think russians got him elected? Or any of the other democratic talking points? Sure.

> No, the "both-sides are equal" thing isn't going to work.

It works because it's true. Both sides are hypocrites and both sides are liars. You and your "crazies" are just as cringey as the "crazies" on trump's side.

> On the one hand, you have a quote by Hillary Clinton ...

And the past 4 years of neverending 24/7 effort by a political party and the corporate media to delegitimize. Were you in a coma the last 4 years?

> which is proving kind of correct in hindsight

So you are saying it's true that Trump stole the election? Jesus you can't help yourself can you?

> on the other, literal armed mobs of Trump supporters threatening to stop the counting of votes by force, lawsuits, attempts to "override" the vote, and hoaxes perpetrated by Trump's own family.

You are right. There's no armed mobs on the anti-trump side. There have been no attempts to override the vote. No hoaxes. It's all just one side. Hypocrisy is truly the ugliest human trait.

I'll make a prediction. If Trump somehow wins, you'll be the first to whine about stolen election.