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JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

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Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#71

Post by kamaal »

Stormbringer wrote: post #39
derwiki wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM has done a great job of building an organization that protects itself from bad employees -- which, at that scale, you're BOUND to have. The problem that I noticed in my time there is that this is done at the cost of not letting the smart people be smart.

Mmmm.... no. IBM has built an organization that protects the bad employees. Business Analysts that cannot analyse anything to save themselves for instance. Coders in Bangalore that cannot code and have shitty communication skills (but marvellously developed excuse making skills). Server admins that don't know how to install and set up servers. I agree with the not letting smart people be smart... but it's not even th…

India/Bangalore/Rest of India situation has become a joke to say at the least. Words like 'Architect', 'Consultant' , 'Tech lead' are all dangerous words here, generally a person who has that designation is useless, hasn't done any work at all.

During 90's and early 2000's most people got rapidly promoted regardless of whether they deserve it or not. They have hardly coded, spent most of the times at on site locations made good money and are now just relaxing and pushing time. Managers have no frigging clue how projects need to run, architects don't even have basic technical skills.

The assumption is that you can just give orders to juniors and get the job done. That is how most of the so called seniors work here. Good hackers/programmers are never rewarded due to many reasons. The horrible ones hop jobs to get good hikes and ultimately end up earning more than the good guys.

The general attitude of the guys joining the industry is not be technically good, never code, just get promoted quickly, go to onsite, earn money in USD, purchanse a flat, car, marry and settle down. And these sort of guys were actually rewarded during 90's and 2000's. So now everybody wants to be like that.

The actual good guys are there, but are lost in the crowd.

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#72

Post by mvalle »

famousactress wrote: post #52

Wow. Just wow. Probably controversial, but in a dozen or so years of programming I think XML probably represents the most stupid and costly ideas to've gained widespread adoption. I honestly can't think of a single other relatively recent technology that's responsible for nearly as many wasted lines of code, unbelievably inefficient systems, and legions of developers who are terrified of bytes that don't render nicel…

There is one good thing XML. brought: BPEL.

It's the funniest language I've ever seen.

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#73

Post by rbanffy »

derleth wrote: post #57
Stormbringer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM has been divesting themselves of good programmers for a while now, probably at least a decade. Their interns are steered away from programming, towards career paths that are perceived as adding value: e.g. consulting. I suppose in theory this makes sense: have the smart locals figure out what is needed, write up some specs and then get the guys in Bangalore to bang (sic) it out for you. In practice, it is an abso…

> They can't even maintain the software they wrote 5-10 years ago, they just don't make any effort to retain that knowledge. IBM is the company that keeps a nearly-five-decade-old architecture and ISA around for its business customers, correct? (zSeries (or whatever its name is this week) is derived from s390, is derived from s370, is derived from s360, was created in the early 1960s.) z/OS and z/VM are modern versio…

It seems Stormbringer was looking at the IT consulting division. I have to agree with him/her on that - I hear horrible things about them and I'd never, ever, under no circumstances, hire them.

That said, I have enormous respect for their mainframe division and operating system programmers. Their server hardware (z, i, and x), z/OS/, z/VM, AIX and their contributions to the Linux kernel are all very good.

IBM is certainly big enough and old enough that different divisions can behave like completely different companies. It's a bit unfair, in fact, to see one division tarnishing the image of a company so full with groundbreaking accomplishments and such a rich history as IBM. The consulting division has to compete for huge contracts, that are managed by pointy-haired lifeforms who can't see beyond hourly rates, with equally incompetent organizations like EDS/HP, Accenture and Tata.

You put an evolutionary pression on the market driving it to provide low prices. The marker responds optimizing for price and price alone.

When you have to compete in price with incompetent-but-cheap organizations, you either become incompetent-but-cheap or get out of business.

Tough choice.

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#74

Post by rbanffy »

wulczer wrote: post #25

Not sure what all the fuss is about. It's actually neat to have a common way of changing JSON to XML, think of a web service that offers an API using our beloved JSON. But wait, we also want to provide an XML API! Let's design our own, ad-hoc, crappy mapping or... use that thing that everyone else is using. XML is out there, has lots of tools and libraries and is actually useful for some things. Not to mention the ar…

> But wait, we also want to provide an XML API!

Why would you want to do that? Govt contracts? Purifying your soul through suffering?

All I want from my XML APIs is to give error messages telling the user to upgrade to the JSON ones. ;-)

> XML is out there, has lots of tools and libraries and is actually useful for some things.

A lot of things had to be invented in order to make XML useful.

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#77

Post by pasbesoin »

kamaal wrote: post #64
famousactress wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. On two totally independent occasions I've come into work to have a coworker tell me they implemented an XML Parser the evening before. Um, right. Great. The thing that totally boggles my mind is that I think it really prove-ably fails to deliver on literally every promise/benefit/design-goal that I hear folks claim it embodies.

I know parsing XML with regular expressions is a sin, but when you need to get some data out a 20 GB XML immediately in the next 10 minutes. It turns out that its better to check out the layout of the XML, use combinations of grep, sed, awk , perl with pipes just to serve the need for the moment. This is better than spending next 5 hours writing a Java program to do it. Its not a permanent solution, but either way th…

I've similarly seen simple pattern matching used in high transaction volume processing. Using a DOM based, or even a stream based processor is considered too expensive. So, just look for the relevant tag and grab the next bit, while presuming that the context is correct. (This involved a limited number of trusted partners, in a relatively steady-state environment.)

OTOH, it eliminated discussions/arguments about what format to use. In a corporate environment, that can be a significant win in and of itself. (Yes, "win" should be in quotes.)

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#78

Post by gte910h »

Stormbringer wrote: post #33
ericmoritz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XSLT and XPath is about the only reason I can see to use this. But, you know, how hard is: x.person.addresses[0].city? I guess XPath is easier when you probably have to do something like this: JSONObject json = (JSONObject) JSONSerializer.toJSON( jsonTxt ) String city = json.getJSONObject("person").getJSONArray("addresses").getJSONObject(0).getJSONObject("city"); Or however you'd do it in Java.

You appear to be confusing Java and Javascript. JSON stands for Javascript Object Notation. In Java the equivalent would simply be serialization. NB: if XSLT and XPath is the solution, you've already lost .

JSON is used for far far more than javascript these days. It's a far better communication protocol than XML for most things.

Re: JSONx is an IBM standard format to represent JSON as XML

#80

Post by aidenn0 »

Sitwon wrote: post #29
Todd wrote: post #15

Why don't we yet have XMLj?

Because JSON supports only a subset of the features of XML.

Yeah, you know the subset that people actually use.

XSLT and XPath are tools that really feel like they should be useful, but for small things, I feel like a streaming parser in is faster and more readable, and for large things, deserializing it all into and querying it that way is better.

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