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San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

latimes.com

141–150 of 754 posts

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in San Francisco since 2005. Over the time I've lived here, we've had the opposite problem: lots of highly paid tech firms moving into SF. This has changed the nature of San Francisco in a way that many dislike, including me. I was initially attracted to San Francisco because, it was chill, it was beautiful, and it had a lot of eccentric, really interesting people. Many of our good friends had to leave o…

> if SF wants to tax excessive income disparity, I say, fair enough. None of the billionaires here made that money from their salary. This will not touch them at all. > If they do leave, I don't see that as a bad thing. Chasing away jobs and the tax base will not end well. There is a decent chance SF enters a financial death spiral from its pension obligations. At the very least, massive cuts are in order. SF will no…

The text of the measure refers to "compensation", of which it gives a specific definition that includes commissions, bonuses, and equity (specifically mentioning stock options). The $1 salary CEO isn't excluded if they also have a huge equity package.

Although it doesn't mention capital gains, so if the CEO owns a significant part of their company already and doesn't have an additional vesting schedule, then they could make personal income from appreciation of the business that wouldn't be counted towards this bill.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#143
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Facebook are in the SF Bay Area and not in SF City. Also, Zuckerberg gets a $1 salary. Unless this law targets full compensation (stocks included), it's not going to touch him. FB is too big to accept a 0.1% or 0.6% gross tax. This law is targeting smaller companies (think Stripe and similar). San Jose is an alternative for the CEO/Headquarters. There could be a minor office in the city where tech workers…

Yes, it includes stock options, property, etc. Basically all compensation. Source: https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2020/11/san-francis...

Is Facebook still giving Zuck bonuses or new stock issues? Isn't Zuckerberg's wealth composed entirely of stock that he already owns? So how is this going to affect Facebook?

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#144

This raises some interesting questions / side effects: 1) Companies may now have a direct incentive to have their lowest income earners be outsourced/contracted out to boost the median pay amount. 2) It was smart of them to include compensation such as stock options. However if a city starts to expect this income, it will all go away in recessions when CEO's stock options are not valuable. ie more money to the city i…

CEOs are all just going to move out of San Francisco.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#145
post #29

"Critics call the surcharge a blatant attempt at redistribution of wealth..." Um, yes? "Critics call John Travolta 'blatantly an actor, playing parts in movies.'"

that was my reaction too. I don't live in the US, so this is an honest question. Most of the comments here are disparaging about the policy. Is that because: 1. you agree with the principle of addressing wealth polarisation, but don't agree with tax as the mechanism? (in general or the proposed model specifically) 2. you don't agree that increasing wealth polarisation needs to be stopped/reversed? 3. something else?…

I find it interesting that you frame income inequality as "wealth polarisation." Are you implying a bimodal distribution of some sort?

My personal theory of "inequality" is that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. A distribution of income levels will always have a long right tail as you cannot make negative income but there is no theoretical limit to the maximum income. If all wages grow by the same relative amount, you would see increased inequality.

I think it is a problem if wages aren't growing for all portions of the distribution, but that is precisely because of the lack of growth for some and not because of the existence of growth for others. So, yes, I do think that growing income inequality may be a societal issue, but only if it is an effect of wage stagnation for middle and lower classes (which it is).

I do not believe that the rich getting richer is the cause of the stagnation, though. If anything, automation and globalization have been the main reasons for stagnation among middle and lower income levels. Automation and globalization may also be the cause of the continued growth in the very high wages. Even if they share the same underlying cause, one didn't cause the other.

I understand, but don't agree with, the argument that increased inequality causes social problems on its own. According to this theory, as I understand it, you can't have the differences among people be too great because it will cause too much power imbalance and resentment and eventually the masses will rise up and destroy the system from within. I don't agree, I think social problems come from the difference in reality compared to expectations of how one thought their future would go -- in other words, it is much worse for someone to see low wage growth in a stagnant economy where their standard of living is declining relative to their parents than it is to see moderate wage growth in a growing economy but there are some other people getting super, super rich. I don't think one's life relative to rich people is that important compared to one's life relative to personal expectations.

So, in that sense, I don't agree with redistribution schemes that intend on fixing a symptom of a problem (that rich people exist) rather than fixing a cause (wages are stagnant).

If the idea isn't to just reduce the inequality, but rather to supplement lower incomes -- there is absolutely no version of "taxing the mega rich" that we could do which would raise enough money to redistribute to the rest of workers such that it compensates them for the lack of wage growth at the lower end. It can't be done, there's not enough money. Eventually you have to tax the (productive) middle class.

From that perspective, I prefer policies that focus on wage growth for the lower and middle classes, even if that's a harder problem to solve.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#149

Why do these discussions always revolve around the collection of taxes instead of how the taxes will be used? Would anyone be complaining if they knew the taxes would be more beneficial? Conversely, wouldn't we reject these new taxes if we knew they weren't going to be a greater benefit? Does anyone even know how the taxes will be used?

Does anyone even know how the taxes will be used?

To fund currently unfunded pension liabilities? To hire more city employees at above-market rates? To build new parks and roads? To fund public transportation?

The money will be used for what it always is - some of it will be good and some of it won't be very good. Once it's in the pot, it gets stirred around and all sorts of people and projects get a full bowl. That's not what's interesting about this story - taxes get raised all the time by all sorts of authorities. What's interesting is that the tax is full of perverse incentives and may very well lead to lower, not higher tax receipts.

Re: San Francisco voters approve taxes on highly paid CEOs, big businesses

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it includes stock options, property, etc. Basically all compensation. Source: https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2020/11/san-francis...

Is Facebook still giving Zuck bonuses or new stock issues? Isn't Zuckerberg's wealth composed entirely of stock that he already owns? So how is this going to affect Facebook?

His income in 2020 was listed at $23M, all under "other income", mostly for the costs Facebook paid for his personal security and personal air travel on the corporate jet.

But he wasn't the highest paid exec. Sheryl Sandberg was, at $30M. Probably still not high enough to trigger the tax.

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