New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression • Hacker News Board

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#181

Post by mckirk » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #64

This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…

That's an interesting insight. Could it be a product of the difficulty in dosing mushrooms in a private setting, though? I'd imagine trips to generally go smoother if it's possible to aim for an intended level of weirdness more precisely.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#182

Post by a4444f » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

fakeacct112020 wrote: post #132

a4444f wrote: post #116

People using throwaway accounts (maybe they have to) to comment, and then there is this 'depression' ICD, wonder if there is any connection.

HN of course is a wonderful place. But there is a stigma on this everywhere. I would much rather seek the support of real world friends than face the judgement of internet denizens.

My idea was, that even online, people can't seem to afford to speak their mind, so I guess in real world this could be even harder.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#183

Post by mistermann » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 12:31 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #164

> A new study of 24 adults with major depression finds that two doses of the psychedelic substance psilocybin, given with supportive psychotherapy , produced rapid and large reductions in depressive symptoms. Notice that therapy is required. What are the odds people will look for the convenience of a pill while completely ignoring any required therapy and then blame everything else but themselves?

This is in no way a proof or even claim that therapy is required, although your overall point is valid.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#184

Post by eggy » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

Is there any research on the adverse affects of quickly relieving depression medicinally, or the role of non-clinical depression in the psychology and function of a person? I ask because I realize the need and desire to relieve many people who suffer from clinical depression that totally derails their life or ability to function, but I always wonder at the possible function of some depression in the normal functioning of the psychology of a person. Does the effect of psilocybin wear off if used too often?

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#185

Post by LatteLazy » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #170

LatteLazy wrote: post #54

Full disclosure, I have severe clinical depression. Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. I can appreciate wanting high standards, but that doesn't mean banning everything that doesn't fit the neat mold we use in other cases. Also, suicide is the leading cause of death for multiple age/sex demographic group…

Hey, just want to say, thanks for the comment. I hope you are getting the help you need. It's not easy these days, even for us 'normal' nerds, so thanks for being here.

Thanks, that means a lot. :)

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#186

Post by mistermann » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #74

Really sick of these "drugs feel good" stories. If we were still behaviorists, we wouldn't pretend this was news. This is declaring a full remission of depression after four weeks in half of the subjects. This is pretend science, I absolutely guarantee that an all expenses paid weeklong camping trip (or trip to Paris for those afraid of bugs, or trip to Japan for those sick of Paris) would do the same thing. Asking d…

> edit: I've been reading lately about saying things directly.

If you're interested in experimentation, I recommend a series (say, 5 to 10) of mid-level-dosage psychedelic sessions, going in with the intent to study the nature of human consciousness and perception, keeping a journal of your experiences and thoughts. I would be surprised if you would still hold the opinions you've expressed here, but then mileage can vary quite significantly in some cases.

> Of course drugs feel good, that's why people do them.

Technically, that is only one of the reasons. Psychedelics seem to usually feel good, but from time to time you can get the exact opposite effect, sometimes in very large quantities. Yet, anecdotes seem to suggest that even after extremely unpleasant trips, most people seem to consider the experience valuable and continue to use them.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#187

Post by danaris » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #74

Really sick of these "drugs feel good" stories. If we were still behaviorists, we wouldn't pretend this was news. This is declaring a full remission of depression after four weeks in half of the subjects. This is pretend science, I absolutely guarantee that an all expenses paid weeklong camping trip (or trip to Paris for those afraid of bugs, or trip to Japan for those sick of Paris) would do the same thing. Asking d…

This has nothing to do with drugs "feeling good."

There has been substantial research recently showing that in some ways that I, at least, don't yet fully understand, various different psychedelics have the ability to "reset" the brain. This appears to be an effective long-term treatment for depression and anxiety—much, much longer-term than the direct effects of the drug—the trip, or any euphoria associated with it; in some cases, on the order of months, or even, for some lucky people, permanently.

So take your "this is pretend science" and shove it. Just because you don't approve of drugs that have been deemed illegal and immoral in the past doesn't change their very real benefits to some people—or the fact that depression is not, and has never been, something that can be cured by "an all expenses paid weeklong camping trip" or any other pleasant experience. Mental illness is serious and debilitating, and if psilocybin and other psychedelics can be more effective treatments than what we have now—which very real science indicates is highly likely—then that's going to be amazing for millions of people all over the world.

You're welcome to go take your camping trip and ignore the news about it.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#188

Post by LocalH » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:05 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #111

taurath wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the primary reason for “normal” psych meds is they’ve been tested well for harm reduction first and foremost. That’s why the front line SSRIs are front line, they have less chance of a negative effect. Downside is it’s mild, and there’s plenty of evidence that the “low seratonin” theory of depression doesn’t apply to many. Psilocybin is an intense acute experience. People can have negative effects. I hope we…

The research and anecdotal reports coming out about microdosing is pretty exciting for the field of depression treatment. Though some take greater dosages, many people are finding relief from sub-perceptual doses: indicating that the typical hallucinations and disorientation associated with recreational psilocybe use is likely not necessary for achieving anti-depressive effect. I've also read of some interesting work…

> I've also read of some interesting work being done creating "anti-abuse" formulations, where the active ingredients are compounded with Niacin or other drugs that cause unpleasant physical side effects at high doses to discourage overdose/abuse/recreational use.

Of course they can’t just let us use the natural substance that has existed for most, of not all, of human history.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#189

Post by LocalH » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #74

Really sick of these "drugs feel good" stories. If we were still behaviorists, we wouldn't pretend this was news. This is declaring a full remission of depression after four weeks in half of the subjects. This is pretend science, I absolutely guarantee that an all expenses paid weeklong camping trip (or trip to Paris for those afraid of bugs, or trip to Japan for those sick of Paris) would do the same thing. Asking d…

You obviously have no idea about psychedelics, to position this as a “drugs feel good” story. Good chance at least one of the participants didn’t have a pleasurable trip. In fact, it’s a common psychedelic trope that it’s precisely the challenging, unpleasant, bad trips that truly have the potential for restorative change. Myself, my most profound and helpful psychedelic experience was a DMT trip that went in a very dreadful direction.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#190

Post by newbie789 » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

mckirk wrote: post #181

newbie789 wrote: post #64

This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…

That's an interesting insight. Could it be a product of the difficulty in dosing mushrooms in a private setting, though? I'd imagine trips to generally go smoother if it's possible to aim for an intended level of weirdness more precisely.

That absolutely could be the issue! Though I never took any myself, I do vaguely recall hearing that 4-aco-dmt (a prodrug for psilocin, just like psilocybin) was more manageable than mushroom consumption. I'd bet that might be due to ease of dosing.