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There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

thehill.com

111–120 of 147 posts

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#111
post #94
post #90

Nobody seems to talk about marijuana being a “gateway drug” anymore, even though it’s still true. I’ve witnessed friends in college become addicted to weed (yes, psychological addiction is still addiction) and their futures have suffered as a consequence. I believe we need to discourage drug use as a society, not give up and let it become accepted. If that means instilling fear that one could be arrested with possess…

You can discourage while still having it legal. In fact, it's easier to detect people with problems if it's legalized, since they lose the incentive to hide the habit and it becomes easier for them to seek help when they feel like it. It's also easier for them to come clean and resume a normal life; otherwise, once you're tainted with felony, all the incentives are to fall back even worse on substance abuse. If there…

> that these things have to be faced in the open, and that addicts are sick people, not bad people. You don't send sick people to jail

... and not all users of are addicts. Recreational use shouldn't be lumped in with addiction, nor should it be persecuted.

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#112
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carcinogens: smoke, alcohol. Not a carcinogen: sugar. Sugar demonization is out of control. Many people eat an unhealthy amount of it, but any level of tobacco or alcohol consumption harms health.

Not being a carcinogen doesn’t mean something isn’t bad for you. I’d even go so far as to say all added sugar is bad for you. Doctors even put fruit juice on the list of bad things since it’s just sugar, even for kids. And sugar needs to be vilified more if anything. I would bet healthcare spending on issues related to excess sugar/carbohydrate consumption (aka being overweight) dwarf anything else.

> Doctors even put fruit juice on the list of bad things

That's not because simple sugars are inherently bad for you but rather because many people don't realize just how much of it fruit juices contain. Related to this, an older family member was warned by a doctor for various reasons to cut back on fruit intake (not juice, but fruit itself).

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#113
post #7

I think it would make a fascinating poli sci case study about why almost all cannabis legalization came from popular referendum instead of legislation. What is it about cannabis that makes it so much more amenable to direct democracy compared to representative democracy. Polls show that overwhelming majorities in most states support legalization. Yet elected representative have been extremely reticent to move policy…

It would also be worthwhile to study where the citizen's initiative referendum came from to begin with.

In some states it's from the same place that voting under the age of 21 arose.

During the Vietnam War, kids were being drafted into the Army at 18 but still not allowed to vote until 21.

Just like it was in World War II only this time they weren't fighting for their country, they were fighting for somebody else's country.

Then along comes Nixon and it was plain to see he was an evil war-monger at heart.

Things got worse as expected, and there was no end in sight since it takes so long to become a powerful politician that the top positions will mostly be the oldest dogs in the race, and therefore by statistics alone the most out-of-touch about things affecting young people that were not a factor in their previous generation.

Fortunately there had been a baby boom so the 21 to 30 age group was bigger than ever at the time, and were largely on the same page as the still-powerless under-21 citizens.

Nixon was doing more damage to US democracy every year, at the same time the war was becoming more widely recognized for its pure stupidity as waves of returning soldiers and officers were able to confirm so with growing consensus.

This built a nationwide unification around lowering the voting age to 18. Even some war hawks could understand the unfairness of continuing to draft kids under 21 when they were still politically powerless. The dogs of war still despised the draft dodgers and their supporters who were constantly pointing this discrepancy out though.

Pressure on legislators eventually won the vote at 18, and while there was momentum plus a new decent size voting block overnight, the push for _Initiative Referendum_ got underway.

Before citizens can put something on the ballot themselves without necessarily having any politicians or political parties involved, their legislators often had to pass a law restoring the right to that type of freedom.

Due to the unprecedented pressure, many states chose to no longer deny this liberty to their people.

They then codified the hurdles that must be overcome for mere citizens to make things right without having to wait for sluggish politicians who may not be interested, or who could act as obstacles until more responsive representatives got into power.

Too bad not every state got this, especially now that it's needed more than ever, but that's what we were planning at the time.

It was plain to see that the 21st century was going to be pretty ugly, but there definitely needed to be some hope.

Texas is not a free state in this regard, remaining more like the Spanish monarchy that ruled when Texas was still a state in Mexico before it joined the USA. The legislature by design still has no provision to quit denying their subjects the full liberty to vote on items of their own initiative.

Oklahoma's lawmakers have presided over a free state by comparison, and their citizens have enjoyed one of the fundamental elements of democracy that Texans can only dream about.

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#114
post #90

Nobody seems to talk about marijuana being a “gateway drug” anymore, even though it’s still true. I’ve witnessed friends in college become addicted to weed (yes, psychological addiction is still addiction) and their futures have suffered as a consequence. I believe we need to discourage drug use as a society, not give up and let it become accepted. If that means instilling fear that one could be arrested with possess…

How does your anecdote support the claim that marijuana is a gateway drug? Your story supports the "MJ isn't harmless" position (agreed), not "MJ leads to harder drug use" (more doubtful).

As far as I know, most states that legalize set aside some portion of the generated tax revenue to support drug treatment programs, which at least partially addresses the "MJ isn't harmless" issue.

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#115
post #7

I think it would make a fascinating poli sci case study about why almost all cannabis legalization came from popular referendum instead of legislation. What is it about cannabis that makes it so much more amenable to direct democracy compared to representative democracy. Polls show that overwhelming majorities in most states support legalization. Yet elected representative have been extremely reticent to move policy…

I think it's pretty simple -- politicians think it's going to happen, but don't want to be personally linked to it because it can hurt their popularity with certain segments of voters they rely on. Nobody wants to claim credit for it. So they put it up for referendum instead, so it happens but it doesn't harm anyone's careers. It's not at all any kind of vindication of direct democracy. Rather, because it's broadly p…

I'm (very seriously) trying to understand how backing something with >2/3 open support, that's clearly bipartisan, would hurt one's political career.

I'm guessing maybe it's because although those who oppose some form of marijuana (neither medical nor recreational) are in the minority, they still make up a sizable voting block when an election is won on the marginal vote. But how does that play out when >2/3 of people support it across the board, and that politician is the only one doing something to push it forward? That politician would literally be the only choice if marijuana is meaningful enough to a voter. So while the politician may lose some supporters, would they not gain support from others?

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#116
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York has been trying to legalize for a few years now but it gets hung up on how to divide up the revenue. New York has all the political will needed but the problem is the bureaucracy. This should not be the least bit surprising.

The "bureaucracy" would be the unelected government employees, but the NY issue last I checked what about what regulations and fees to levy, monopolization, and reparations concerns. All of that is rather over-complex, but doesn't deal with the "bureaucracy" per se?

You literally just described bureaucracy.

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#117
post #73
post #7

I think it would make a fascinating poli sci case study about why almost all cannabis legalization came from popular referendum instead of legislation. What is it about cannabis that makes it so much more amenable to direct democracy compared to representative democracy. Polls show that overwhelming majorities in most states support legalization. Yet elected representative have been extremely reticent to move policy…

One has to be careful with what the majority supports. I think if we always follow a majority we'd still be burning witches at the stake. I am not against people smoking joint though. Their choice.

How should we choose whose opinion matters?

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#118

Interesting to see people on social media with one breath talk about how mask wearing should be up to the individual, with another that legalizing weed is a terrible move that will lead to the breakdown on society. Personally I really do not like the smell so I would like a "freedom from skunk smell" bill passed too.

With decriminalization the smell is everywhere around parks too which bothers me the most when I’m trying to enjoy fresh air. I wish they’d go ahead and switch to vapes or something that smells less. Even tobacco was better or carries less.

No way does pot smell worse than tobacco. Cigarettes have the worst, most acrid smell that carries the furthest. Just horrible, like burning plastic or something. Just my own opinion, of course.

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#119
post #90

Nobody seems to talk about marijuana being a “gateway drug” anymore, even though it’s still true. I’ve witnessed friends in college become addicted to weed (yes, psychological addiction is still addiction) and their futures have suffered as a consequence. I believe we need to discourage drug use as a society, not give up and let it become accepted. If that means instilling fear that one could be arrested with possess…

That's a wonderful medical study you've published there...

Re: There was a clear winner on election night: Marijuana

#120
post #101
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, a bit of secondhand smoke outside isn't dangerous, it just smells bad. That's provably false. And besides, not only does it smell bad, but it sticks to your clothes and then you smell bad.

I’ve never in my life observed clothes smelling like smoke from being near smokers outside.

Never been to an outdoor concert?
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