New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression • Hacker News Board

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#151

Post by aksss » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #64

This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…

That's interesting. I think LSD (not micro, but full on) is probably the most "dangerous". I've seen people fall into full retard mode on LSD, never seen anything quite as severe from people taking shrooms. Personally, I've never had a bad trip on shrooms, definitely had one or two on acid. The nature of the trip is quite a bit different. I'd call LSD an "advanced" psychedelic, and shrooms way more beginner-friendly/benign. Writing none of this to disparage either, just interesting that you have a very different opinion/experience regarding their nature.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#152

Post by aksss » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #77

scarmig wrote: post #5

I'm curious if we have insights into whether psychedelics' mental health effects work by changing something by a direct chemical interaction, or if they work by just encouraging the patient to rewire their own brain while tripping. If e.g. you administered psychedelics on someone in an induced coma, would you see the same benefit?

This study wasn't just about psilocybin. The patients received 11 hours of professional therapy. The psilocybin was used as an adjunct. The theory is that psilocybin increases suggestibility and openness to new ideas, making the therapy easier to integrate. Note that increasing suggestibility isn't a universally positive trait, especially for people doing ad-hoc dosing alone without therapy. In fact, it's uncommon to…

We always considered sleep to be the 'reset' button after taking acid or mushrooms.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#153

Post by drummer » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

Depression is a logical and natural reaction to something fucked in a person's environment. The proper solution is to fix the environment, not to drug yourself into living in a dreamstate. Quite frankly, the world being the way it is today, you should be worried about yourself if you are not depressed. Again, ignoring reality is not the solution.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#154

Post by jonfromsf » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #131

ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

> is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure There can be, but only for some people and not others. I've seen esketamine make a night & day difference. Sadly, it has horrible side-effects as well, as in someone nearly died from that and had to discontinue the trial. There's some hope that a particular metabolite of ketamine that works on AMPA may offer relief without the side-effects…

I use ketamine for depression. I get it by IV every 2-3 months at a clinic, and the effect seems to last about that long. Haven't had any bad side effects so far.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#155

Post by nl » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:35 AM UTC

rland wrote: post #55

ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

I completely agree. The structure of our society actively deprives people from human connection which is essential to happiness. Individuals do suffer from depression at different rates, but it pops up the same way popcorn pops when you turn the heat on. The direct cause is the atomization of modern life, not some chemical imbalance in the brain. The reason people treat depression as an individual problem to be addre…

> The structure of our society actively deprives people from human connection which is essential to happiness.

(Clinical) depression isn't the same as unhappiness.

The lack of energy to do anything and the general hopelessness are quite different to feeling unhappy or sad.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#156

Post by newbie789 » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

aksss wrote: post #151

newbie789 wrote: post #64

This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…

That's interesting. I think LSD (not micro, but full on) is probably the most "dangerous". I've seen people fall into full retard mode on LSD, never seen anything quite as severe from people taking shrooms. Personally, I've never had a bad trip on shrooms, definitely had one or two on acid. The nature of the trip is quite a bit different. I'd call LSD an "advanced" psychedelic, and shrooms way more beginner-friendly/…

I'm very much biased by my own experiences (hence my disclaimer that I make no claim to expertise here.) I've personally experienced and witnessed shroom trips being more... primal and emotional? than LSD

To be fair, considering the importance of set and setting, my opinions on the subject may be entirely informed by what I was going through during my trips personally, and what my friends were going through during theirs! Again, not an expert haha

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#157

Post by blunte » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:40 AM UTC

throwaway17824 wrote: post #52

ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

I have had treatment-resistant major depression for eight years. During that time I have had long periods with extensive, frequent social interaction and bonding. My depression encompasses most of the time I've known my now-wife, repairing a broken relationship with my father, the acquisition of one new close friend, and the coming and going of many transient relationships. I don't know what the cure for my own case…

> CBT trains you to arrest those thoughts and replace them with thoughts that are constructive

This part is useful to everyone well beyond the scope of depression. Simply becoming aware of one's thoughts is a revelation. Our ability to ride a stream of thoughts without being actively conscious to them is unfortunate; it must have some evolutionary reason, but it also means we can repeat and experience many bad feelings and thought patterns without recognizing that we have some choice in whether to allow them to run free or to shut them down/replace them.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#158

Post by blunte » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #78

ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

As someone who used to be diagnosed with clinical depression and eventually got over it with a combination of therapy and sheer determination ... ... eh, being with people is the most reliable way to trigger a depressive episode. It makes me realize how much of traditional "This will make you happy" advice just doesn't click with me. Groups of friends make me feel lonely and disconnected. I feel my best when I'm on m…

Who we are with is very important. For some people (myself included), the percentage of people who are beneficial to be around is very low compared to the general population.

And since so few people result in positive experiences (and since solitude doesn't usually cause feelings of sadness, but rather freedom), I would usually choose to be alone.

Given a choice, I would like 60% total solitude, 10-20% general human interaction, and the rest ideally the good meaningful, connective relationships.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#159

Post by boomboomsubban » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

cam_l wrote: post #142

throwaway17824 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had treatment-resistant major depression for eight years. During that time I have had long periods with extensive, frequent social interaction and bonding. My depression encompasses most of the time I've known my now-wife, repairing a broken relationship with my father, the acquisition of one new close friend, and the coming and going of many transient relationships. I don't know what the cure for my own case…

First, agree with everything you said (and it must be frustrating to deal with poptart* psychology like this). >but it works for an awful lot of people I know CBT is awfully popular on HN. But it is worth reading into the stats on CBT. Even if you take them at face value, it certainly does not work for everyone. It is of course, most effective when there is a clear cause and effect, very effective with anxiety, and a…

>There have been more studies on CBT than any other form of therapy, and those studies suffer from the same replication crisis that the rest of social science research does.

More studies showing the same results means they aren't suffering from the replication crisis, even if the exact same study isn't being replicated.

CBT isn't for everyone, that is true. And you shouldn't worry or blame yourself if it didn't work, there are more options available. But I wouldn't cast doubt's on it's overall efficacy or claim it's junk science.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#160

Post by jointpdf » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 3:07 AM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #72

modeless wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of placebo could you use to stand in for a treatment that normally has immediate and obvious side effects like this one?

Probably the control should be some other psychoactive substance that also has some noticeable hallucinogenic effect, but is not believed to have curative properties. The other way (which is close to what they have done) is to compare and contrast the therapeutic effects of different dosages - if the patient feels the expected sideeffects in both cases, but the normal dose achieves measurably better results than a mi…

They’ve used Ritalin as well, since it has obvious psychoactive properties and also causes some of the same physical effects as psilocybin (increase in heart rate, sweating, etc).

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/do-magic-mushrooms-mak...