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New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

psychnewsdaily.com

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Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#111
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there's no evidence it's toxic and you can do it every month because that's how long it takes for your tolerance to wear off, 3 months is a lot of time. Consider normal SSRIs where you feel like crap for a month, try N more (which could mean many more months) until you find one that suits you, then have side-effects, then try to get off them so that's another couple of months of misery. That's countless d…

I think the primary reason for “normal” psych meds is they’ve been tested well for harm reduction first and foremost. That’s why the front line SSRIs are front line, they have less chance of a negative effect. Downside is it’s mild, and there’s plenty of evidence that the “low seratonin” theory of depression doesn’t apply to many. Psilocybin is an intense acute experience. People can have negative effects. I hope we…

The research and anecdotal reports coming out about microdosing is pretty exciting for the field of depression treatment.

Though some take greater dosages, many people are finding relief from sub-perceptual doses: indicating that the typical hallucinations and disorientation associated with recreational psilocybe use is likely not necessary for achieving anti-depressive effect.

I've also read of some interesting work being done creating "anti-abuse" formulations, where the active ingredients are compounded with Niacin or other drugs that cause unpleasant physical side effects at high doses to discourage overdose/abuse/recreational use. "Stamet's stack" seems to be the most common of these.

Definitely needs much more research into these compounds, but seems a very promising frontier for antidepressant pharmacology.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#112

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

"Feeling depressed" is not what we call clinical depression. Clinical depression means you just cannot function on your own anymore. Seeing it happening to someone you knew for years is eye opening.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#113
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of placebo could you use to stand in for a treatment that normally has immediate and obvious side effects like this one?

Yeah this objection is a red herring. You need to look at the effect size. If you have found a protocol where (according to the study author) "the magnitude of the effect we saw was about four times larger than what clinical trials have shown for traditional antidepressants on the market", if it's just a placebo, that sounds like a great placebo to be giving! As noted above I seriously doubt the concept of a placebo…

>if it's just a placebo, that sounds like a great placebo to be giving!

Even for antidepressants, the placebo effect makes up 67.6% of the effectiveness [1], so the placebo is always much more effective than antidepressants.

>Also see https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/01/31/powerless-placebos/

Hmmm, that seems to be a review from 2004. Newer data [2] shows that placebos can affect autonomic, neuroendocrine and immune responses and pain responses.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130402/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6013051/

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#114

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

As a completely unscientific anecdote, I have two friends who both happen to be microdosing right now, and the improvements to their general dispositions and engagement with daily activities are profound. It's not at all clear that the effects will be lasting however, and my friends tend to be outliers in any case.

note: they're taking far less than a recreational dose.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I've had a very bad experience w/anesthesia so am always nervous while dealing with anything of that nature. Wonder if that predisposes me to a bad trip. Not sure that would be worth it for just 2 weeks of relief. Also not sure I'd be able to find any such doctor near me. Probably health care providers are much more open minded out West than it is here.

The nice thing about ketamine is that it is a sedative. I've done LSD, Mushrooms, and DMT. Ketamine is the most enjoyable and least risky in my opinion, due to its sedative nature. The doctors usually give an anti-anxiety drug before starting the infusion, a benzodiazepine such as midazolam. As I did more infusions, we increased the ketamine dose and decreased the midazolam. Find a good doctor and work with them. Ket…

Did insurance cover Spravato? I didn’t even realize it was available as a self-administered prescription drug.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#118

We have to be careful to prescribe these psychotropic substances willy-nilly to the general population. Cannabis has always initially worked well for me, but 1-2 months into using it, it causes schizophrenic/manic episodes. I cannot touch it anymore because of the possible permanent damage it could do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#119
post #65

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

You’re describing situational depression. A lot of people have chronic depression, where he only hope for managing the depression involves pharmaceuticals.

Pharmaceuticals on the market today don’t have a great track record in treating chronic depression. The first time a depression victim takes a drug it has a 66% failure rate: https://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/treatment-resistant-d...

Drugs like MDMA are being evaluated as a potential treatment as well: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/mdma-depression

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. There are no ethical barriers to including a control group. The idea that double-blind, placebo-controlled trials are impossible with psychoactive medication is a strawman argument, because obviously we can still have a control group. The control group doesn't even ne…

The reason you cannot have a double blind study is that you can tell you've been given mushrooms. So, I expect, can the therapist and the researcher etc. The moment anyone knows it's no longer double blind. I'm happy to be corrected if there is some clever way around this. I have heard people suggest you give "control" group members so other psychoactive substance (MDMA was suggested). But that doesn't have the same…

Indeed. Other trial designs may also be appropriate such as crossover or waiting lists. Depends on the aims of the study. Double blind RCT simply isn't feasible or appropriate in every circumstance.
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