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New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

psychnewsdaily.com

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Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#81

Post by PragmaticPulp »

modeless wrote: post #23
cpncrunch wrote: post #16

>New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression Nope, it doesn't. The study wasn't placebo controlled. The placebo effect will have a large effect in a study like this, so we have no idea what effect the psilocybin had.

What kind of placebo could you use to stand in for a treatment that normally has immediate and obvious side effects like this one?

You don't need placebo. That's a common misconception.

They could have used an active control group that received traditional antidepressants.

This study wasn't actually about psilocybin, it was about psilocybin-assisted therapy. So they could have simply had one group receive only therapy and the other group receive therapy plus psilocybin.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#82

Post by ItsMattyG »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #76
newbie789 wrote: post #64

This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…

The study used psilocybin as an adjunct to 11 hours of professional therapy. This study is not the same as taking psilocybin or other psychedelic drugs in an ad-hoc manner.

Although previous studies have basically been "listen to music with a tripsitter" and have had little ill effects.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#83

Post by [deleted] »

Swizec wrote: post #78
ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

As someone who used to be diagnosed with clinical depression and eventually got over it with a combination of therapy and sheer determination ... ... eh, being with people is the most reliable way to trigger a depressive episode. It makes me realize how much of traditional "This will make you happy" advice just doesn't click with me. Groups of friends make me feel lonely and disconnected. I feel my best when I'm on m…

[deleted]

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#84

Post by me_smith »

bovermyer wrote: post #20

I did not expect to see Tim Ferriss's name in an article like this. Interesting.

Yea. Tim Ferriss has put a lot of effort (and money) into this type of research. He has brought on several guests on his podcast to discuss this subject. He has also talked about his past depression which, I believe, drives his passion towards this work.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#85

Post by loceng »

ummonk wrote: post #65
ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

You’re describing situational depression. A lot of people have chronic depression, where he only hope for managing the depression involves pharmaceuticals.

*clinical depression which could easily stem from long-term, chronic situational depression, life circumstances, etc.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#86

Post by tasty_freeze »

LatteLazy wrote: post #80
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. There are no ethical barriers to including a control group. The idea that double-blind, placebo-controlled trials are impossible with psychoactive medication is a strawman argument, because obviously we can still have a control group. The control group doesn't even ne…

The reason you cannot have a double blind study is that you can tell you've been given mushrooms. So, I expect, can the therapist and the researcher etc. The moment anyone knows it's no longer double blind. I'm happy to be corrected if there is some clever way around this. I have heard people suggest you give "control" group members so other psychoactive substance (MDMA was suggested). But that doesn't have the same…

People have attempted controls in the past, and often it is a high dose of niacin. It causes flushing and increased HR. To someone who has experience with mushrooms they won't be fooled. To someone naive, they can think they got the real deal.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#88

Post by giantg2 »

ckosidows wrote: post #31

As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…

Some things in typical medicine have their roots in unconventional medicine. For example PSK came from Shiitake (I think), oyster mushrooms and walnuts have plant sterols which statins mimic, lions mane has shown effectiveness as a nootropic, and there are currently trials on the effectiveness of turkey tail extract in combination with chemo. And don't eat shaggy mane and drink alcohol - it will mimic antabuse.

I'm an amateur mycophile, if you couldn't tell.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#89

Post by cwkoss »

modeless wrote: post #23
cpncrunch wrote: post #16

>New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression Nope, it doesn't. The study wasn't placebo controlled. The placebo effect will have a large effect in a study like this, so we have no idea what effect the psilocybin had.

What kind of placebo could you use to stand in for a treatment that normally has immediate and obvious side effects like this one?

One early study of psychedelics used niacin as the placebo. All the patients were in the same room (not a great study design IMO) All of the control patients experienced niacin flushing before the treatment patients started having effects, so many treatment patients initially thought they were in the control group.

Re: New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression

#90

Post by meetups323 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #80
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. There are no ethical barriers to including a control group. The idea that double-blind, placebo-controlled trials are impossible with psychoactive medication is a strawman argument, because obviously we can still have a control group. The control group doesn't even ne…

The reason you cannot have a double blind study is that you can tell you've been given mushrooms. So, I expect, can the therapist and the researcher etc. The moment anyone knows it's no longer double blind. I'm happy to be corrected if there is some clever way around this. I have heard people suggest you give "control" group members so other psychoactive substance (MDMA was suggested). But that doesn't have the same…

Perhaps at low doses in total darkness?
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