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>New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression Nope, it doesn't. The study wasn't placebo controlled. The placebo effect will have a large effect in a study like this, so we have no idea what effect the psilocybin had.
Yeah, I'm going to want the same psychotherapy given to a group given psilocybin, a group given traditional antidepressants, and a group given placebo (with the psychotherapist blinded to administered drug).
>New study finds psilocybin greatly and quickly relieves depression Nope, it doesn't. The study wasn't placebo controlled. The placebo effect will have a large effect in a study like this, so we have no idea what effect the psilocybin had.
What kind of placebo could you use to stand in for a treatment that normally has immediate and obvious side effects like this one?
The other way (which is close to what they have done) is to compare and contrast the therapeutic effects of different dosages - if the patient feels the expected sideeffects in both cases, but the normal dose achieves measurably better results than a minimally low dose, then that's some evidence about the effectiveness of the active ingredient.
As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…
If depression really is a "software" rather than a "hardware" issue that makes it much harder to solve right? You can't just toggle some biochemical switches and restore normal function. But if you can rewire the software in just the right way then maybe
I bet you have the 3 scenarios:
- "hardware" only
- "software" only
- both
Asking depressed people whether they're depressed in four weeks during which they've had two good, safe, legal drug sessions, and considering it meaningful, is moronic.
edit: I've been reading lately about saying things directly. Of course drugs feel good, that's why people do them.
Many people only read the headlines and assume that psilocybin is treating depression. The reality is that these studies psilocybin as an adjunct to 11 hours of traditional therapy.
These studies aren't showing that psilocybin is a promising treatment for depression. They're showing that psilocybin-assisted therapy is a promising treatment for depression.
This is fascinating. I'm glad that they're allowing psychedelics for certain types of treatment, but I hope that the choices open up further than psilocybin. Back in my teenage years I took pretty much every psychedelic I could access, and trip-sat (like babysitting) for about two dozen of my friends over the course of a few years. I found in tripsitting that psilocybin was among the more difficult to manage psychede…
This study is not the same as taking psilocybin or other psychedelic drugs in an ad-hoc manner.
I'm curious if we have insights into whether psychedelics' mental health effects work by changing something by a direct chemical interaction, or if they work by just encouraging the patient to rewire their own brain while tripping. If e.g. you administered psychedelics on someone in an induced coma, would you see the same benefit?
The theory is that psilocybin increases suggestibility and openness to new ideas, making the therapy easier to integrate.
Note that increasing suggestibility isn't a universally positive trait, especially for people doing ad-hoc dosing alone without therapy. In fact, it's uncommon to hear "bad trip" stories where people end up in prolonged depressive or anxious episodes following a trip.
There is no evidence here that taking psychedelics without therapy is positive for patients, so it's extremely unlikely that dosing someone who is sedated or in a coma would have any effect.
As hopeful as I am for unconventional drugs to have more medicinal uses, is it unreasonable for me to think there's no good medicinal depression cure? Is it unfounded to think depression generally has its roots in being disconnected from other people/society? I've felt depressed before, but I've probably never had it as bad as many people. But generally I've felt depressed when my life felt too narrow. When I've felt…
... eh, being with people is the most reliable way to trigger a depressive episode. It makes me realize how much of traditional "This will make you happy" advice just doesn't click with me. Groups of friends make me feel lonely and disconnected.
I feel my best when I'm on my own. Or with 1 or 2 very close friends for short periods followed by lots of recovery time.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with that theory comes when people who have all of that and more get depressed. I do think you have a point in that the cause can be external but I think to see it as social is far too limited. Then there are cases where it's entirely internal as well, depression being a symptom of various illnesses. I'm not sure if you know this but a lot of theraputic work does focus on solving external problems. You mi…
To me it seems happiness is basically a big AND-expression of fulfilled needs. If someone is lonely they need community, if someone is scared they need safety, if they are malnourished they need food etc.
Full disclosure, I have severe clinical depression. Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. I can appreciate wanting high standards, but that doesn't mean banning everything that doesn't fit the neat mold we use in other cases. Also, suicide is the leading cause of death for multiple age/sex demographic group…
> Multiple comments here have asked for double blind placebo trials. But you can't really do that with something psycho active, at least not ethically. There are no ethical barriers to including a control group. The idea that double-blind, placebo-controlled trials are impossible with psychoactive medication is a strawman argument, because obviously we can still have a control group. The control group doesn't even ne…
The moment anyone knows it's no longer double blind.
I'm happy to be corrected if there is some clever way around this. I have heard people suggest you give "control" group members so other psychoactive substance (MDMA was suggested). But that doesn't have the same effect as mushrooms. And also, it's ethically merky to give people other drugs they're not expecting/consenting to. Plus then you don't really have a control group, you have Mushrooms vs Other Drugs...