Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
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Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#2Thanks to the practice of Parallel Construction and using Third Party vendors, I'm sure there would be a way around this.
Hypothetically, the Portland PD sends all the details of the crime, including images, to a Third Party. Third Party, through use of proprietary black-box algorithms, returns a list of likely suspects. Portland PD investigates the suspects, and constructs the parallel case, without the need for the Third Party's report to ever enter the court room. Not that I think Portland, Maine is an epicenter of authoritarianism.
Is it a good thing to have idealistic laws? Or is it damaging to have a false sense of security?
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#3> curb government and police use of facial recognition technology
So, it's outsourced. A private entity does the spying and tips 911.
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#4Thanks to the practice of Parallel Construction and using Third Party vendors, I'm sure there would be a way around this. Hypothetically, the Portland PD sends all the details of the crime, including images, to a Third Party. Third Party, through use of proprietary black-box algorithms, returns a list of likely suspects. Portland PD investigates the suspects, and constructs the parallel case, without the need for the…
>Not that I think Portland, Maine is an epicenter of authoritarianism.
Relative to the kinds of places many of it's residents come from it is a paradise of individual liberty.
Relative to the rest of Maine it is the most authoritarian by a mile.
People from Portland (cue joke about them all being from MA) wouldn't blink twice about a local ordinance that would have the people of Bangor or Lewiston up in arms. I'm sure they don't mean to be authoritarian and it's just a reflection of the cultural norms from the places many of them come from and everyone else keeping their mouth shut (because nobody wants to rock that boat in a tourism economy) but having a reason doesn't excuse it. Yes I know I'm generalizing, please don't paint a straw-man and act like I called your hardliner libertarian uncle from Portland an authoritarian. Clearly I mean it at the statistical level and mean it relative to the other parts of Maine.
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#5Thanks to the practice of Parallel Construction and using Third Party vendors, I'm sure there would be a way around this. Hypothetically, the Portland PD sends all the details of the crime, including images, to a Third Party. Third Party, through use of proprietary black-box algorithms, returns a list of likely suspects. Portland PD investigates the suspects, and constructs the parallel case, without the need for the…
I don't think you're fully appreciating what this bans. The concern is not taking picture of a crime scene. The concern is having always-on camera feeds with facial recognition running. I.e., being able to trace the movements of individuals without any crime or suspicion of a crime.
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#6Thanks to the practice of Parallel Construction and using Third Party vendors, I'm sure there would be a way around this. Hypothetically, the Portland PD sends all the details of the crime, including images, to a Third Party. Third Party, through use of proprietary black-box algorithms, returns a list of likely suspects. Portland PD investigates the suspects, and constructs the parallel case, without the need for the…
>Not that I think Portland, Maine is an epicenter of authoritarianism. Relative to the kinds of places many of it's residents come from it is a paradise of individual liberty. Relative to the rest of Maine it is the most authoritarian by a mile. People from Portland (cue joke about them all being from MA) wouldn't blink twice about a local ordinance that would have the people of Bangor or Lewiston up in arms. I'm sur…
This statement is a touch misleading. Portland's the only thing resembling a city in Maine, so it's going to have a larger government, organized police, etc, compared to the rest of the state.
However, I wouldn't describe anywhere in Maine as being remotely authoritarian in the first place. The disclaimer being I haven't really spent any time up north, but I suspect no one is alleging authoritarianism north of Bangor.
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Not that I think Portland, Maine is an epicenter of authoritarianism. Relative to the kinds of places many of it's residents come from it is a paradise of individual liberty. Relative to the rest of Maine it is the most authoritarian by a mile. People from Portland (cue joke about them all being from MA) wouldn't blink twice about a local ordinance that would have the people of Bangor or Lewiston up in arms. I'm sur…
This statement is a touch misleading. Portland's the only thing resembling a city in Maine, so it's going to have a larger government, organized police, etc, compared to the rest of the state. However, I wouldn't describe anywhere in Maine as being remotely authoritarian in the first place. The disclaimer being I haven't really spent any time up north, but I suspect no one is alleging authoritarianism north of Bangor…
I grew up in Maine, and I think the statement is quite accurate. Portland is not authoritarian, but it is by comparison to the northern counties
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#8Seems people are disregarding this vote based on hypothetical loopholes. Instead, i am focused on the awareness this bill represents.
Facial Recognition and Right to Repair improvements both ended up on state ballots and came away with citizen/consumer wins (as opposed to gov/corporate).
HN comments are usually quick to point out that "normal people" don't have a clue about these issues. I tend to agree. I for one am happy to have such objective data points that the public is sensing some urgency here.
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#9I agree with the effort to find privacy solutions, but it seems like enforcement of surveillance bans like this will be an uphill battle as long as the physical video hardware remains present. 2020's cutting-edge facial tracking systems will be 2022's Intro to PyTorch tutorial, available to anyone with a $500 GPU. As long as video is being captured and stored, how do you realistically prevent it from being subject to analysis somewhere?
Re: Portland, Maine passes referendum banning facial surveillance
#10Seems people are disregarding this vote based on hypothetical loopholes. Instead, i am focused on the awareness this bill represents. Facial Recognition and Right to Repair improvements both ended up on state ballots and came away with citizen/consumer wins (as opposed to gov/corporate). HN comments are usually quick to point out that "normal people" don't have a clue about these issues. I tend to agree. I for one am…
Amen. Great points.
I hope Cory Doctorow sells a billion copies of Attack Surface (the new 3rd vol in his "Little Brother" series), as it's an entertaining and accessible way to introduce these concepts to said "normal people".