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Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

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Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#41

Post by alnayyir »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #29
gtani wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hang out at local user's groups. I've thought of driving down to the Ruby/rails UG, sounds like a really good crew http://groups.google.com/group/columbusrb?lnk= (i bet cincinatti has stuff like this too. Cleveland's pretty, uh, quiet). I'm guessing that there's one job category that there will never be enough people for, anywhere: javascript programmers who thoroughly understand DOM scripting, making things work sec…

javascript programmers who thoroughly understand DOM scripting, making things work securely in IE 6-8, safari and firefox Now we are getting somewhere. Look deep into your soul and ask yourself: "Is there an actual reason why I haven't become a web programmer yet?" I'm going to catch hell for saying this on news.yc... but stop learning Lisp for a while. Nobody knows about Lisp but grad students and MIT grads, and the…

Thanks for the excellent advice.

As I said in another reply, I found a community college that is cheap enough for me to pay for the tuition in cash. I'll just get my degree and go from there.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#42

Post by menloparkbum »

gm wrote: post #12

I'll be honest, hopefully you'll appreciate it because you need honest advice. I read your post and I can already hear the self-pity string quartet playing and a big screen in the background playing images your hard, hard life. Task #1 is to stop whining, not just to other people, mainly to yourself. What do you mean you could not get any loans? What kind of whiny-ass thing is that? You could not get loans so you dro…

It's actually not very hard to get back into school.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#43

Post by gm »

alnayyir wrote: post #36
ajross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the point here is that the "college" section on your resume represents not just education, but evidence that you're not a total flake. An employer is going to look at your story and wonder why you couldn't, at the very least, get through a few community college courses or an associates degree. As someone who went to a "top" university and received a ton of financial aid, the money excuse doesn't really hold w…

I'm not a flake, I just don't have access to funds.

Alnayyir, I am by no means belittling you; stop calling yourself a flake.

College: You can do it. You should do it. It's worth it. The tools are there. Almost everyone wants to help you. The mechanism is set up to help you. Heck, there are even scholarships for grandchildren of volunteer farmer firemen; and there are searchable databases too. My message to you is: Do it.

Here's what I did, I had a similar situation and I worked my way through college for a CS degree:

Go to a local community college (in your state as they often have huge discounts for state residents) that has a way to transfer to a big 4-year university. Do research, and choose the one that has the best transfer track record. These colleges are good not only because of the implied higher education quality but because the counselors are better equipped to get you into the 4-year.

Use this time wisely, accomplish two things: a) Get good grades, the best you can; and b) build up your professional programming history so you can get a steady stream of consulting gigs later in life (you're gonna need the income).

It's perfectly OK to take 3-4 years doing this. Do it well, this is the key to your future.

Use the system too. My community college permitted dropping out of a course late in the term,so if the calculus class is looking like you'll get a C or maybe a B, drop it and take it again. Don't screw up your grades, they are your ticket to the future. When I found out 4-year universities did not care about dropped courses, I started keeping my "A" classes, and dropping everything else.

When the time is right, transfer to the best 4-year university you get accepted to (you will because you got good grades at the community college). Work your way as much as you can through university, come out with as little debt as possible.

Nowadays you even have guru.com and the like. You can certainly find a job there. One of the best things in colleges/universities nowadays are the job centers. There are lots of companies that advertise for jobs only at their college's job center.

That's pretty much it. It's not impossible.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#44

Post by NoBSWebDesign »

I had the exact same problem with no help and no cosigners. Eerily exact actually. My dad wouldn't help or co-sign and his income was too great to help with financial aid, and my mom was in no financial position to co-sign.

So, what did I do? I spent every waking second of my senior year in high school applying for scholarships (merit-based, not need-based). So my advice to you would be to do the same. You may be out of high school already, but it's never too late. Spend the next semester applying for scholarships (sign up and create your profile on fastweb.com for starters).

After you've gotten a few, go take out student loans for the rest. Though a co-signer helps, I never had one, so I know it's possible. I got most of mine through Sallie Mae. Of course the downside is you get approved with an 11% interest rate (especially with the economy the way it is now). But if you're truly as skilled and disciplined as you claim, you should be able to make that back up no problem once you graduate.

Of course, playing devil's advocate here, there are many people for whom college is not right. Many people spend their entire lives paying off student loans because they got a degree in some field that doesn't pay well, and for which the difference in average salaries between a college grad and a high school grad is not enough to feasibly cover the cost of the college degree.

However, with programming, and the level of competence you're claiming, a degree would definitely be a wise investment for you. So, get in the game and take care!

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#45

Post by gm »

alnayyir wrote: post #35
gm wrote: post #12

I'll be honest, hopefully you'll appreciate it because you need honest advice. I read your post and I can already hear the self-pity string quartet playing and a big screen in the background playing images your hard, hard life. Task #1 is to stop whining, not just to other people, mainly to yourself. What do you mean you could not get any loans? What kind of whiny-ass thing is that? You could not get loans so you dro…

I appreciate your candor, but you're missing the point. No source of funding, no school. It's not like I need to "snap" out of anything. I want to go back to school. As I've already said I've spoken with a financial aid advisor, things are grim and don't seem plausible failing a windfall. My car is mine, I'm not an idiot, I'm just poor. You're quite right, problems don't fix themselves, they also aren't fixed because…

Dude, sorry for the tone, but yes, you need to snap out of it. I don't feel particularly sorry for you because I was faced with the exact same situation as you, and I ended up in some pretty lofty places. All under my own power, so it's not impossible. No source of funding? Go to a fast food place and get one. You say you code in C#. That's good, it's a technology people expect to pay money for.

Anyway, see my other post about how I did it, just so you have an example.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#46

Post by run4yourlives »

alnayyir wrote: post #35
gm wrote: post #12

I'll be honest, hopefully you'll appreciate it because you need honest advice. I read your post and I can already hear the self-pity string quartet playing and a big screen in the background playing images your hard, hard life. Task #1 is to stop whining, not just to other people, mainly to yourself. What do you mean you could not get any loans? What kind of whiny-ass thing is that? You could not get loans so you dro…

I appreciate your candor, but you're missing the point. No source of funding, no school. It's not like I need to "snap" out of anything. I want to go back to school. As I've already said I've spoken with a financial aid advisor, things are grim and don't seem plausible failing a windfall. My car is mine, I'm not an idiot, I'm just poor. You're quite right, problems don't fix themselves, they also aren't fixed because…

To illustrate my point, I decided not to pursue a fairly cute girl recently because she would cut into my coding and learning time. Nothing in the world is as important to me as my work and my intellectual pursuits.

This may be unpopular on this forum, but in 10-15 years, you should expect your views to change 180 degrees. For that reason, it would be unwise for you to focus so narrowly on your "interests". You are young, even though you may not feel so, and are still in the process of growing. Allow yourself to do so.

After reading a few of your comments in addition to your post, I'm going to side with the crowd that thinks you are whining. That isn't a personal attack, but an understanding of where you are based on what you've written and where I've been in the past.

There are many poor college kids. In fact, I'd say 75% of them can't really afford to go to the school they go to. Yet, there they are. While not having a millionaire for a father makes life more difficult to us all, it shouldn't stop you from what you want to do.

Yes, getting a PT job, taking out a big loan and possibly going to a cheaper school will both be tough and a compromise from the ideal. So fucking what? 99% of life is compromise. What matters is that you continue to move in your intended direction. What you can't get today, ensure you can achieve tomorrow.

I don't know you, but what I read from you is fear. Fear of failing, and fear of disappointment. Your excuses are only justifications that you use to avoid admitting that you are afraid to act. This happens to everyone, and is certainly common around your age - transitioning from child to adult. Do not allow this fear to control your life, or you will never accomplish anything. You will die lonely, unloved and incomplete.

Your situation matters little. The obstacles in front of you are stagnant. What matters is what you choose to do. You are the part of the equation that is flexible and fluid. Don't waste that.

PS - Go ask that girl out. You will look back on it later and wonder what if, so save yourself the heartache by just finding out now.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#47

Post by mickt »

hunterjrj wrote: post #10

If leaving Ohio is an option, get yourself out of there and into a major center. Though Columbus is a large place, you won't have nearly as many options as you would in say... Silicon Valley, Boston or New York. Don't let past experience set your future expectations in terms of being hired. People do hire based on merit, so be persistent. Lean towards smaller companies without bulky HR depts. HR people are generally…

The problem with moving is the cost! It's can take a lot of money to move, especially to SV, Boston, or NYC. Plus, as an out-of-state resident (state) colleges will be too expensive.

However, UMass Boston has a pretty good CS programme at a cost a lot less than the big local private schools.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#48

Post by run4yourlives »

mynameishere wrote: post #6

Disown your father.

From the sounds of it, it might be very likely that his father is not the curmudgeon that he appears, but is in fact attempting to teach his son a very valuable lesson, one that will allow him to avoid the perils that his mother faces.

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#49

Post by mickt »

alnayyir wrote: post #41
mechanical_fish wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

javascript programmers who thoroughly understand DOM scripting, making things work securely in IE 6-8, safari and firefox Now we are getting somewhere. Look deep into your soul and ask yourself: "Is there an actual reason why I haven't become a web programmer yet?" I'm going to catch hell for saying this on news.yc... but stop learning Lisp for a while. Nobody knows about Lisp but grad students and MIT grads, and the…

Thanks for the excellent advice. As I said in another reply, I found a community college that is cheap enough for me to pay for the tuition in cash. I'll just get my degree and go from there.

Great it's a good start! :) Just be careful that you don't take courses that won't transfer to a 4-year college (beats me how you'd determine this).

Plus, this discussion is good for anyone else in your position and it'd be good to keep the dialog going as you may get some other useful suggestions for the future.

Why not apply to MIT maybe they'll give you a scholarship! U never know. :)

Re: Help a fledgling professional programmer makes some important career decisions.

#50

Post by alnayyir »

gm wrote: post #43
alnayyir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a flake, I just don't have access to funds.

Alnayyir, I am by no means belittling you; stop calling yourself a flake. College: You can do it. You should do it. It's worth it. The tools are there. Almost everyone wants to help you. The mechanism is set up to help you. Heck, there are even scholarships for grandchildren of volunteer farmer firemen; and there are searchable databases too. My message to you is: Do it. Here's what I did, I had a similar situation a…

Yeah, I've already decided to go to a local community college that is a launchpad for OSU. It's 1400 a semester, I can pay that in cash.

I wasn't calling myself a flake, someone implied I could be seen as one.

I'll be focusing on leveraging high grades in order to get future scholarships, and I'll look into the consequences of dropping a class.

Thanks.

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