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A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

arstechnica.com

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Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#11

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

> WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies?

Mainly because ISPs are not engaging in viewpoint discrimination. They don’t care what political viewpoint you have, as long as you pay them money, they will let you post it on the internet. In addition, most people have become used to the prices and expending a bunch of political energy to save $30/month isn’t worth it to a lot of people.

Now the feeling of being censored, on the other hand, generates a visceral reaction, and people can be convinced to expend a lot of political capital for that.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#12

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

[deleted]

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#13

Post by pixl97 »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

Only baffling because you dont fully comprehend how much communication monopolies control they playing field by financing both political parties. Not behind my computer, but look up the legal bribery that has prevented municipal broadband in the US. I worked for Cox when this was a thing back in the early 2000s. There is no amount of money they would not spend to subvert competition.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#14

Post by avmich »

rapsey wrote: post #9
crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

It’s only baffling if you believe the system works. It is entirely unsurprising if you believe that those monopolies are too rich and powerful to be attacked by politicians.

So the question becomes then why people believe so much this - "that those monopolies are too rich and powerful to be attacked by politicians" - to not act, while they, the same people, don't seem to have similar beliefs in other issues.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#15

Post by AlexandrB »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

ISPs are "natural monopolies" like water or electrical companies, especially in areas with low density. This means that even a level playing field was not enough, because small competitors can't afford the cost of building their own infrastructure (nor would we want them to lay redundant cables). Measures like Net Neutrality are ways of keeping the natural monopolies from abusing their position to gain advantage in other markets.

Here Biden clearly seems to be for net neutrality while Trump is, obviously, against it. So it's not as if this issue is not visible to both candidates. It's just never spoken about in terms of "monopoly" because there's no clear way to eliminate natural monopoly without a ton of regulation (e.g. sharing the last mile) or outright public takeover of the last mile infrastructure.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#16

Post by thotsBgone »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

This is the result of government corruption. For example: the government paid ISPs $400 billion dollars (!) to create a nationwide fiber network, and the ISPs pocketed the money and didn't do it. No investigation into what happened or anything. The money is just gone. Clearly corruption is the only explanation. Politicians have been bought.

Why voters don't know/care is another issue, but it might have something to do with the fact that the news media has also been bought.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#17

Post by havetocharge »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

Can't be hurting the domestic spying apparatus.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#18

Post by speeder »

Telecom is... too nasty to touch to be honest.

Brazil tried it, we had a state company that had a monopoly of telecom, we broke it up intentionally in many tiny parts and sold them.

Results were basically this:

1. A bunch ended eventually merging, often with help of blatant corruption (for example one such merger was first denied, then approved again after the son of the president "sold" to a telecom company, his game company for 30 million, a game company that never made any games, and the son of the president before that was a zoo caretaker and didn't knew how to code).

2. Some are going bankrupt, with parts they bought being unprofitable, and will eventually get merged into the others.

3. A LOT of international 007-style spy shit happened because of this... We had our version of CIA spying on our own president, owner of a bank spied upon (seemly with good reason), Italy and Brazil spying on each other, agents getting arrested, agents disappearing, people bending backwards to release criminals and suspected criminals to avoid diplomatic incidents, people that disappeared or died, etc...

To be honest Telecom looks like the sort of thing that even touching with a mile-long pole you will still get shit splattered on you, and if you try a shorter pole it will be nuclear shit.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#19

Post by furyofantares »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

Seriously, I feel like I say it every time it comes up: WHY aren't people taking action against ISP monopolies? It seems like such a cut-and-dried political issue: they're utilities and they overcharge you whether you're a Republican or Democrat. And taking action doesn't require new antitrust concepts, because it's just your garden-variety utility. It's the same established principles as electric or natural gas. Yet…

> Yet bizarrely this doesn't show up as an issue on Republican or Democrat platforms.

The cynic in me says that it's because it helps neither win against the other.

Re: A tech antitrust problem no one is talking about: US broadband providers

#20

Post by mattferderer »

I am curious how Starlink will change this conversation one way or another.

It adds another competitor to the mix.

Could it become the monopoly if the tech were to make current ISP tech obsolete or to expensive for most areas?

If it became the better method, does that mean our skies will soon be even more polluted with satellites by exponential factors?

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