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Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

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Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#281
post #269
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, have you seen the public recently? If you don't need protection, great! But hate speech emboldens bigots. It has a chilling effect.

The problem is you are calling anyone who does not agree with your definitions, a bigot. Each side of radicals has no self reflection on the fact that they too are radicals.

I completely agree that radicals usually lack perspective.

I don't see how I call everyone who disagrees a bigot. I'm saying that the very real process of gathering strength of the alt-right works through a lot of channels that have basically one thing in common, which is speaking hateful bullshit.

There are people who would benefit from some counter-process. (And a sample of one (koheripbal) who is fine is not a great counter-argument.) I'm not saying that anyone who disagrees with this is a bigot. Far from it. Disagreements are healthy, especially constructive criticism.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#282
post #104

My company got spammed by Expensify CEOs political views. Some non Americans complained about receiving the irrelevant email. Some Americans were targeting even that. Apparently foreigners have no right to NOT RECEIVE political endorsements that mirrors their political views. Your politics is too toxic. Sorry but it has to be said.

And just after I read this on HN I see this shared by a fellow brit asking WTF https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texa... and indeed... it's hard to comprehend of this level of voter and campaign intimidation like this anywhere. When I've read things like this in the past it's been in failed states.

And as also a fellow Brit, I think you need to exercise a bit more judgement before leaping on the bash America bandwagon. Firstly, it appears the Democrats are contradicting themselves about what happened. That article links to another article on CBS that directly contradicts their own. Their article says:

"Joe Biden’s presidential campaign canceled a Friday event in Austin, Texas, after harassment from a pro-Trump contingent."

and quotes:

"The Biden campaign’s Texas communications director, Tariq Thowfeek, said holding the event would have placed Biden staffers and supporters at risk."

But the CBS affiliate article says:

"The Biden bus has also been closely followed by Trump supporters while on the road, though Texas Democrats insist their presence didn't affect their decision to call off the downtown Austin rally ... Texas Democrats told us they canceled the event so not to take away attention from vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris"

Then the videos. The Twitter vids don't seem to show intimidation. They're all in vehicles, the trucks are just driving alongside the bus. There's a video of what looks like a failed merge on an overly busy highway, which is described like this:

“These Trump supporters, many of whom were armed, surrounded the bus on the interstate and attempted to drive it off the road,” he alleged. “They outnumbered police 50-1, and they ended up hitting a staffer’s car.”

Even the Daily Beast has to report this as "alleged" because he provides no evidence they tried to drive it off the road. If they'd wanted to do that they certainly could have done, given the number of trucks, but the bus was unharmed.

The only activity described in the article that could possibly rise to 'intimidation' is turning up and making some noise at rallies, but that's not normally called intimidation, is it? It's not exactly unheard of for anti-Trump people to turn up and make a lot of noise at his rallies, and the right don't accuse the left of intimidation or cancel events in those situations.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#283
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the local laws, but isn't there a minimal distance between cars in the runway? The truck was too close to the bus.

Tailgating is a thing, but so is not merging when unsafe to merge as well as splitting lanes is a thing you should not do (motorcycles excepted in some states).

I agree. It would be nice to see a 3D reconstruction of the whole event from above.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#284
post #281
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you are calling anyone who does not agree with your definitions, a bigot. Each side of radicals has no self reflection on the fact that they too are radicals.

I completely agree that radicals usually lack perspective. I don't see how I call everyone who disagrees a bigot. I'm saying that the very real process of gathering strength of the alt-right works through a lot of channels that have basically one thing in common, which is speaking hateful bullshit. There are people who would benefit from some counter-process. (And a sample of one (koheripbal) who is fine is not a gre…

Fair enough, I retract my insinuation of your intent.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#285
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so we call out facts, and for the record I am not right wing. But the second article is false on its face a self claimed hard left antifa associate killed someone in portland less than a month ago. So the claim that there has been no death puts the whole article in the making stuff up as they go along camp. As for the first article I would agree with the DHS's assessment and it gets to the heart of why each side…

> But the second article is false on its face a self claimed hard left antifa associate killed someone in portland less than a month ago. So the claim that there has been no death puts the whole article in the making stuff up as they go along camp. Or you could just, like, check the date line.

OK, fair enough, but that just move the question, why use an article in current discussion that does not reflect the realities as they currently stand? It still implies an agenda that makes the issue look one sided when it is indeed not one sided at all.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#286
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the second article is false on its face a self claimed hard left antifa associate killed someone in portland less than a month ago. So the claim that there has been no death puts the whole article in the making stuff up as they go along camp. Or you could just, like, check the date line.

OK, fair enough, but that just move the question, why use an article in current discussion that does not reflect the realities as they currently stand? It still implies an agenda that makes the issue look one sided when it is indeed not one sided at all.

Because 329-vs-1 is just as one sided as 329-vs-0. But I love that you blasted it as making shit up rather than bothering to look closely at the material.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#287
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, they don't align with "strong liberal" views so any controversial part of their past makes them cancel-able ("ban" as you say). I now feel like I will hesitate to submit a Cato article in the future, and I don't even know what is wrong with them! Basically exactly what the article discusses.

There are a ton of information available about the Cato institute online. If you "don't even know what is wrong with them", don't want to post about them and don't want to inform yourself that's on you.

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/09/27/dont-tell-people-to...

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#288
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't new though. If you read MLKs letter from Birmingham jail you'll see he's also super vocal against moderates. The issue is moderate really ends up meaning status quo (with basic changes), which if it's not clear a ton of people are suffering under the status quo. So when you're a moderate you're in a way putting your seal of approval to the status quo, which ends up being pretty harmful for those who want t…

No I am not, I don't agree with radical ideals, I am not approving of either sides ideals. I do not need to choose your side and I am not your enemy, if I don't see eye to eye with you. At some point you get the idea that we are enemies as thus you make us enemies (not me), as I don't see eye to eye with your opponent either and have no interest in aiding them. I will not lend them comfort nor aid, just as I will not…

If you're a bystander to violence then you are a participant in it.

If you see someone getting attacked and you say you're a pacifist and you won't do anything to stop them then you're actively aiding the attacker and actively hurting the victim.

The fact that you're seeing this as a two sides issue means that you're honestly not actually aware of what injustices others are going through. If you were a victim of the injustices me and many other minorities have experienced you would expect more from others too.

No one says you have to join in on our fight. But if you're staying silent while I'm being killed then you're not going to be seen as a neutral player in this.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#289
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Do we have to show tolerance to the intolerant?" is not the newest question in the book Lately it seems to be the most misrepresented part of Popper's "paradox of intolerance", where he defines intolerance as those who resort to violence instead of speech, and the would be censors of this age who bring up the paradox - without seeming to have read it - tell us that the intolerant are those we disagree with. "we" b…

That line very much gets fuzzy if you look at it over time as law constantly changes. Call for immediate violence is treated very much like violence in a lot of jurisdictions.

The law has indeed changed over time, but that is the nature of common law, it changes as new challenges come up where novel arguments will arise. That doesn't make the law fuzzy though, it's clear enough for the vast majority of cases that occur at any one time. The actual statute upon which the law rests is in the constitution, I'm not aware of any changes to that since 1791.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#290
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I am not, I don't agree with radical ideals, I am not approving of either sides ideals. I do not need to choose your side and I am not your enemy, if I don't see eye to eye with you. At some point you get the idea that we are enemies as thus you make us enemies (not me), as I don't see eye to eye with your opponent either and have no interest in aiding them. I will not lend them comfort nor aid, just as I will not…

If you're a bystander to violence then you are a participant in it. If you see someone getting attacked and you say you're a pacifist and you won't do anything to stop them then you're actively aiding the attacker and actively hurting the victim. The fact that you're seeing this as a two sides issue means that you're honestly not actually aware of what injustices others are going through. If you were a victim of the…

There is a whole lot to unpack there, as everyone assumes that they are innocent and are the righteous, virtuous, and correct party but the reality is both sides of any argument have flaws, a perfect example is BLM, they pack in a bunch of radical marxist and intersectional theory onto the back of racism to give it emotional charge and to label people like me who want nothing to do with that as racist. When in fact I correctly see racism as a doctrine of hate as well. But I am not going to answer their rally call of racism when to do so, would be to lend my voice to their other and just as important doctrines that are part of their agenda and honestly I suspect their real agenda.

The reality is I am not going to support that as it is a doctrine of hate. You cannot couch hate in emotional issues and then label it good. If you are out supporting it, I am not going to support you. I am not with them, I am against the hate. I am against their as well hate, I will just as I am now, call out my opposition to violence, but I am not going to support or advocate hate or violence because one side feels it is justified. I used BLM because you mentioned minorities, feel free to swap them, for Patriots Prayer because the message would be the same in talking to someone that mentioned ultra-nationalist, right wing, zealots who package it up behind a message of god's love. The people I support are men like Ken E. Nwadike who are consistent in a doctrine and worldview of no tolerance for hate or violence and that non-tolerance starts with the only thing we can change in this world, ourselves.

If someone is being actively attacked no matter who they where I would try to stop the violence. This is very different that supporting any doctrine that espoused that it is acceptable to hate or be violent to others, this is the breeding ground of violence and I will not support it as to do so is to aid in violence. That being said if you are taking to the streets and you get killed don't expect me to come out to avenge you. You, just like the other side, took to the streets to push your grievances.

The grievances I see in the streets right now are back by some really nasty human desires. I want nothing to do with it, I am neutral because I am not lending my support to either side. If you cannot see that there is hate packaged with what is being sold, than you miss the point as to why I cannot support it, and why I am not lending the other side aid. To lend aid to hate would be wrong. Both sides will label me against them, and that is fine it's the way dogmatic hate works. Yielding to it, would mean that the cycle cannot be broken.

But once again, when you claim that a pacifist is participating in the violence by staying true to their belief in nonviolence. It is you that are placing the label on the pacifist, it is you that is putting into action blame and hate on a person that is correctly telling you that this is the fruits of hate, it is you that is placing blame, not me. Put simply the pacifist will not make someone their enemy, but that does not mean that people do not see them as the enemy and when you realize the truthfulness of that reasoning, you will understand the pacifists world view, and that is that hate starts from each and every one of us, to not condemn it oneself, while calling for the condemnation of it in others is hypocaracy. hate breeds contemptment and enemies, not the other way around. My actions cannot by their nature make enemies, anger and rage coupled with a feeling of justification are what makes them. You are justifying and rationalizing why it is ok to see a pacifist as the enemy, to the extent that you are claiming that they are participants in violence. I hope you can see where dogmatic thinking has led you.

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