I am still confused as to why companies have to pay tax at all? If every single employee including owners already pay income tax, and IVA/GST/purchase taxes, property taxes, xyz additional personal taxes levied by respective governments, why then on top of all that make companies pay tax, doesn't that just detract from people wanting to start companies and/or seek countries with the least taxes/best loopholes? Discla…
Because they act as a stand alone entity, and they may make and keep profit that doesn’t get dispersed to the employees.
The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
261–270 of 423 posts
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tax loopholes (and tax lawyers) exist only because there is sufficient complexity in the tax system/tax code. This is because the tax system actually has 2 conflicting uses: (i) collect revenue for the gov't and (ii) create incentives/disincentives that are meant to push taxpayers in ways that are deemed beneficial, be it to the economy or to certain policy like environment, housing, etc. If you drop (ii) you can end…
No, the tax system is complex because businesses are synthetic entities that can be arbitrarily complex. This is because corporations are allowed to exist unchecked since the 19th century. Return to the original intention of corporations, that they must be chartered and regulated in order to preserve their exemption from human individual law, and most of the problem goes away.
The original intention of corporations was to make more money for their owners and that is pretty much still the case. Chartering and regulation were introduced later, to curb the worst excesses of human greed. Arguably, this very discussion thread and the push by governments to curtail tax evasion is proof of that ongoing process.
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#263I read about tax avoidance schemes like corporate inversions or sending all your patents to a company in some tax free haven and licensing your patents from your company for all your profits, and so on, and it makes me really mad. Companies making many billions of dollars paying no taxes. My intuition is that if I personally came up with a cute "gotcha" like this where I wound up paying zero in taxes because of some…
Some excerpts (it's a great, long piece. Read it all):
"In 2017, researchers estimated that fraud by America’s largest corporations cost Americans up to $360 billion annually between 1996 and 2004. That’s roughly two decades’ worth of street crime every single year."
"Even though auditing millionaires and billionaires is one of the most cost-effective government activities imaginable—an independent report estimated in 2014 that it yielded up to $4,545 in recovered revenue per hour of staff time—the IRS investigated the returns of just 3 percent of American millionaires in 2017."
"It is, as one of those high-priced lawyers might say, improbable that these demographic and economic facts exert no influence whatsoever on judges' rulings. In a 2012 review of sentencing data in Florida, researchers found that “high-status” white collar criminals, such as doctors scamming Medicaid, were 98.7 percent less likely to receive prison terms than welfare fraudsters. A 2015 study found that judges showed increasing mercy as fraud offenders moved up the income scale: Criminals who stole more than $400 million got sentences that were less than half of the minimum recommended by federal guidelines. Criminals who stole $5,000 or less served sentences well over the minimum."
"The only thing that consistently worked was to combine them— warnings from government agencies, surveillance of the worst actors, harsher punishments for repeat offenders and, yes, at the top of the ladder, criminal prosecutions for corporations that refused to shape up.
This is hardly some exotic, untested concept. When it comes to every other form of crime, law enforcement agencies are perfectly comfortable cracking down on offenses at every level. This is the country that invented three-strikes laws and “broken windows” policing. When it comes to street gangs and drug distribution networks, the criminal justice system has no problem simplifying complex criminal liability questions into four simple words: You should have known. "
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#264I am still confused as to why companies have to pay tax at all? If every single employee including owners already pay income tax, and IVA/GST/purchase taxes, property taxes, xyz additional personal taxes levied by respective governments, why then on top of all that make companies pay tax, doesn't that just detract from people wanting to start companies and/or seek countries with the least taxes/best loopholes? Discla…
Take the case of me, a German citizen living in Germany, owning Apple stock. The German government taxes me on the capital gains - fair enough. But with your model the US government and the government of California would receive no taxes beyond those owed by the employees.
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or you just tax the end result (per country). Ie, you buy through 1000 transactions, and you sell through 1500 transactions for a net total of +€5k within the country. Tax that €5k, not the individual transactions. Unless I'm missing something.
“Transfer pricing” is why this doesn’t work out.
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#266I am still confused as to why companies have to pay tax at all? If every single employee including owners already pay income tax, and IVA/GST/purchase taxes, property taxes, xyz additional personal taxes levied by respective governments, why then on top of all that make companies pay tax, doesn't that just detract from people wanting to start companies and/or seek countries with the least taxes/best loopholes? Discla…
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, this works well with the ethos of some companies (like Amazon, allegedly) which reinvest a lot of their profits to cut margins/develop new products... And overall just tighten their hold on the market Should a businesses goal not be to tighten their hold on the market? I’m pretty sure if I don’t, someone else will.
Pure greed dictates that companies must do what is best for the individual company. Grow like cancer, engulf all competition, capture the market etc. However, the owners of the company are humans that do not need to be constrained by those rules. Indeed, humans can hold other values higher - such as seeing that acting in the benefit of the entire society or even to benefit the entire planet is better than focusing on…
That's a 2020 benefit to an entire society that arose from 25 years of effort to grow in a sustainable way.
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#268Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pure greed dictates that companies must do what is best for the individual company. Grow like cancer, engulf all competition, capture the market etc. However, the owners of the company are humans that do not need to be constrained by those rules. Indeed, humans can hold other values higher - such as seeing that acting in the benefit of the entire society or even to benefit the entire planet is better than focusing on…
It's unpopular in some circles to praise Bezos, but during this pandemic, I sure am glad that they had built such an expansive and performant logistics supply chain to help people get the goods they needed without having to go to the (often closed) malls. That's a 2020 benefit to an entire society that arose from 25 years of effort to grow in a sustainable way.
Re: The public has a right to know how companies that pay no taxes pull it off
#270I am still confused as to why companies have to pay tax at all? If every single employee including owners already pay income tax, and IVA/GST/purchase taxes, property taxes, xyz additional personal taxes levied by respective governments, why then on top of all that make companies pay tax, doesn't that just detract from people wanting to start companies and/or seek countries with the least taxes/best loopholes? Discla…
Take the case of me, a German citizen living in Germany, owning Apple stock. The German government taxes me on the capital gains - fair enough. But with your model the US government and the government of California would receive no taxes beyond those owed by the employees.