How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#41

Post by serf » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 2:33 AM UTC

aetherspawn wrote: post #30

It would be interesting to see a heat map for reading an article like this. It’s so long.. after 10 minutes I wanted to know the point of it, so I skipped aggressively to the middle, found a few points, then skipped to the end. I wonder if there’s any value to so many words in this day and age with so many other things to read on the internet.

>I wonder if there’s any value to so many words in this day and age with so many other things to read on the internet.

There are many books being written every year, yet the classics remain so -- they aren't pushed away into non-existence.

If you have trouble finding the value in the literature blame the author, not the word-count.

If the question is 'Does short content generate more hits on the internet?', then undeniably yes.

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#42

Post by TwoBit » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 2:52 AM UTC

nahuel0x wrote: post #35

This is mind blowing: > For the first half of the twentieth century, the going theory was that the invading element—the “antigen”—served as a template around which a corresponding antibody was molded. Only in 1955 did scientists discover the much stranger truth. It turned out that the cells that produce antibodies—called B cells, because they were first discovered in the bursa of Fabricius, an organ that does for bir…

That's cool, but realistically how else could it do it?

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#43

Post by TwoBit » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 2:59 AM UTC

FooHentai wrote: post #10

ane wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of reporting interleaved with storytelling in a really weird voice is frustrating. Why do journalists write like this? What purpose does this word salad serve? I can do this myself! "On a bald September day, a man walks into a barber shop, languishes at the occupied seats, and voilà, while sensing upcoming bowel movements, he discovers the next great theory of economics."

This is 'Long Form Journalism'. The 'dip in, dip out' paragraph structure is a dead giveaway. Not always what you're looking for but it can be a good way of cracking into a subject you're unfamiliar with, or a good way of merging the human element with something that would otherwise be quite dry. By no means a substitute for regular news, but a good complement to it.

> it can be a good way of cracking into a subject

You mean it can be a good way of stretching an article to fit more ads and increase monetization.

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#44

Post by dougmwne » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

TwoBit wrote: post #43

FooHentai wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 'Long Form Journalism'. The 'dip in, dip out' paragraph structure is a dead giveaway. Not always what you're looking for but it can be a good way of cracking into a subject you're unfamiliar with, or a good way of merging the human element with something that would otherwise be quite dry. By no means a substitute for regular news, but a good complement to it.

> it can be a good way of cracking into a subject You mean it can be a good way of stretching an article to fit more ads and increase monetization.

I think it is actually optimized for print magazines where someone can be expected to dip in and out when they have a few minutes on the couch and the publisher has a set number of pages to fill. It's not as well suited to the internet where 25 words surrounded by 10 ads seems to be the norm and 5 minutes is an eternity.

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#45

Post by porknubbins » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 3:34 AM UTC

nahuel0x wrote: post #35

This is mind blowing: > For the first half of the twentieth century, the going theory was that the invading element—the “antigen”—served as a template around which a corresponding antibody was molded. Only in 1955 did scientists discover the much stranger truth. It turned out that the cells that produce antibodies—called B cells, because they were first discovered in the bursa of Fabricius, an organ that does for bir…

After learning CS I can’t help but see biology as crazy algorithms run on a living computer. Like someone was thinking “how can we match possibly any shape of invader? Screw it cells are cheap we’ll brute force randomly try them all.”

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#46

Post by nahuel0x » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 3:37 AM UTC

porknubbins wrote: post #45

nahuel0x wrote: post #35

This is mind blowing: > For the first half of the twentieth century, the going theory was that the invading element—the “antigen”—served as a template around which a corresponding antibody was molded. Only in 1955 did scientists discover the much stranger truth. It turned out that the cells that produce antibodies—called B cells, because they were first discovered in the bursa of Fabricius, an organ that does for bir…

After learning CS I can’t help but see biology as crazy algorithms run on a living computer. Like someone was thinking “how can we match possibly any shape of invader? Screw it cells are cheap we’ll brute force randomly try them all.”

check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_computing

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#47

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 3:52 AM UTC

nahuel0x wrote: post #35

This is mind blowing: > For the first half of the twentieth century, the going theory was that the invading element—the “antigen”—served as a template around which a corresponding antibody was molded. Only in 1955 did scientists discover the much stranger truth. It turned out that the cells that produce antibodies—called B cells, because they were first discovered in the bursa of Fabricius, an organ that does for bir…

[deleted]

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#48

Post by cma » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

TwoBit wrote: post #42

nahuel0x wrote: post #35

This is mind blowing: > For the first half of the twentieth century, the going theory was that the invading element—the “antigen”—served as a template around which a corresponding antibody was molded. Only in 1955 did scientists discover the much stranger truth. It turned out that the cells that produce antibodies—called B cells, because they were first discovered in the bursa of Fabricius, an organ that does for bir…

That's cool, but realistically how else could it do it?

There are already examples of alternatives, like it could have some kind of brain and communication apparatus to work with others of its species and put together things like GPU simulations of protein modeling to generate optimized artificial antibodies.

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#49

Post by ncmncm » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

aetherspawn wrote: post #30

It would be interesting to see a heat map for reading an article like this. It’s so long.. after 10 minutes I wanted to know the point of it, so I skipped aggressively to the middle, found a few points, then skipped to the end. I wonder if there’s any value to so many words in this day and age with so many other things to read on the internet.

Every time a New Yorker article shows up, people crawl out of the woodwork to complain that it's a New Yorker article.

If New Yorker articles are not for you, then do not try to read New Yorker articles. Really! Read other things you will actually like. If you want a quick rundown of the topic, Wikipedia is only a click away, and gets right to the point.

Those of us who like New Yorker articles appreciate them when they appear. We know there will be an investment of time, and we know that a board of Editors has ensured that, for those of us who like the format, our time will not be wasted. Those who don't, know in advance that they will just be frustrated and bored, and can skip past instead. You are not even obliged to "upvote" the post.

Really, nobody is keeping track. Nobody will think ill of you for skipping past the moment you notice "New Yorker" in the URL. If you ever become ready for New Yorker articles, New Yorker articles will be there for you.

Re: How the Coronavirus Hacks the Immune System

#50

Post by projektfu » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #37

random023987 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for the summary, it's about 1/4 the way in. > Usually, the viruses that humans care about are successful because they shut down both of these signalling programs. The coronavirus is different. “It seems to block only one of those two arms,” tenOever told me. It inhibits the interferon response but does nothing about the cytokines; it evades the local defenses but allows the cells it infects to call…

I've been doing some lab & modeling research on this, and it's more complex. I think it's a non-linear dynamics problem. In a nutshell, SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) does block interferon response by using molecular mimics. Some of the proteins encoded in the virus are really similar to proteins in the interferon pathway, so this is not surprising. Still pretty unexplored and a nice route towards finding treatments. Now, the…

I’m a bit surprised by that statement about biology labs being hostile to mathematical models. Care to go more in depth?