Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#21

Post by loeg » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #5

dddddaviddddd wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running Linux Chrome in a FreeBSD Linux jail already works [1]. But, Chrome is already ported to FreeBSD [2]. Not sure why you'd need Linux Chrome specifically. In fact, there's already a port of Electron [3]. [1] https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/linuxulator-how-to-run-go... [2] https://www.freshports.org/www/chromium [3] https://www.freshports.org/devel/electron5/

Its marked as broken in the LinuxApps page linked to from the article ( https://wiki.freebsd.org/LinuxApps ). And its been broken every time I've tried it on -current. You need Linux electron working in order to be able to run things like Slack's Linux desktop app, and other electron apps which are compiled for Linux. And you need the Linux binary chrome from Google in order for DRM to work.

Have you tried it with --no-sandbox --no-zygote --test-type yet? I haven't, yet. Admittedly, I'd much rather run Chrome in its sandbox, but if this is a good starting point, great.

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#22

Post by takeda » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't this a key component required to have native support (without having to use a VM?)

Frankly, though docker failed to deliver most of its promises, but at least it became a standardized deployable unit.

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#23

Post by jdc » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #22

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't this a key component required to have native support (without having to use a VM?) Frankly, though docker failed to deliver most of its promises, but at least it became a standardized deployable unit.

macOS seems to do alright

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#24

Post by moonchild » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #20

yadco wrote: post #19

BSD subsystem for Linux.

Pretty much. Long predates WSL1, though, and facing many of the same difficulties that prompted the Windows team to just run Linux in a hypervisor (WSL2).

> facing many of the same difficulties that prompted the Windows team to just run Linux in a hypervisor

How's that?

WSL had serious performance issues due to design differences between linux and NT. Linux and freebsd both being unices, there is no such impedance. Some features (like cgroups) remain unimplemented, true, but there haven't been any big difficulties afaik.

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#25

Post by takeda » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #15

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

Every couple of years people express interest but no one has ever done the work. It is very much doable as the original port showed, and the zfs driver already exists for image layering as that works on Linux.

I think that the people who work on it have goal to run linux in it and that causes the project to be more complex than it should. For example if you use Linux on ARM you still need to build new containers, because the x86_64 won't work there, so why it should be different with FreeBSD? Yes, it would be great to run the same docker images on FreeBSD, but that should be a later step, and stuff like described in this wiki, could be used to accomplish that.

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#26

Post by q3k » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

There used to be a thing like this called jetpack [1], but unfortunately the project has died.

[1] - https://github.com/3ofcoins/jetpack

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#27

Post by nickexyz » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

zokula wrote: post #12

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

> Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS. Now if only if FreeBSD wasnt an slow, unstable, glued together example of an OS.

> Now if only if FreeBSD wasnt an slow, unstable, glued together example of an OS.

I really don't see how this kind of comment adds to the conversation. As jen20 wrote, GNU/Linux really is glued together.

Linux is great, but FreeBSD are in my opinion both more stable and less "glued together". Since you have a clear separation between the system and user installed packages, there usually are less things that breaks. In my experience of course.

To be fair, I was kind of anti BSD as well before giving it a real chance.

In any case, I really hope the BSD:s continue to grow. One OS is never a good thing, and Linux seems to eat up most of the market right now.

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#28

Post by throw0101a » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #14

markstos wrote: post #11

Nice progress, but it notes that `systemd` doesn't work, which means all the things that depend on `systemd` won't work either.

I've been generally OK with systemd, and think most of the complaints about it were over-dramatic, but this is exactly one of the things we were warned about, right?

systemd-as-SysV-init replacement was fine. It's all the other stuff that many people think is overkill: udevd being pulled in, journald, time sync, file system mounting, network management, etc.

And all are in one repo with tight coupling.

For an "init system".

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#29

Post by centimeter » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

zokula wrote: post #12

djsumdog wrote: post #6

I wish there was a usable Docker Engine API implementation that could run containers in jails using zfs for image layering. There is a Docker for FreeBSD port, but last time I checked, it was super old. Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS.

> Having Docker as a first class citizen on FreeBSD would make it really incredibly as a server OS. Now if only if FreeBSD wasnt an slow, unstable, glued together example of an OS.

FreeBSD's point of distinction is that it's carefully designed and fitted together, compared to Linux's comparatively heavy use of glue.

I also haven't heard credible reports of it being slow, except for things it's not really used for (like drivers for consumer wifi cards).

Re: Ubuntu Linux Jail on FreeBSD 12.2-Release

#30

Post by centimeter » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

About 6 months ago I tried running FreeBSD on a network appliance, when I usually run Debian. Wow! I'm never going back. Everything about it made me really happy, from the smooth install (Debian often has issues with serial console installs), to being able to boot ZFS, to the sheer simplicity of configuring the OS.

One stark example of how clean the FreeBSD install is: there are something like 9 or 10 processes running after boot for a fresh FreeBSD install, compared to dozens for a fresh Debian or Ubuntu install.

Using jails is also a lot more pleasant than using docker.