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Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

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Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#381
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are classic symptoms of underpowered PIs. 99% of USB power supplies are not fit for a PI :(

So that raises the question: Why do they keep making Pis with USB power? One could argue that it's because USB power supplies are cheap and ubiquitous, but that's not really true if only 1% of power supplies are actually capable of properly powering a Pi. They could use a different power connector that doesn't cause this confusion, or they could design Pis to use less power and therefore work properly with more USB p…

MacBooks Pros are “USB powered”, too, but you need a 65W USB-C charger to get them past “Not Charging”.

A USB connector, at this point, is a PHY (like a serial DB-9 connector), not an inter-ecosystem compatibility promise (like a FireWire or SCSI port.) Lots of things use USB for lots of different incompatible use-cases. They just happen to share a connector.

But on the other hand, you can also think of it like a regular PSU: all motherboards connect to all PSUs, and there’s no way for a PSU and motherboard to communicate to “lock out” a mismatch. And a PSU will seem to work for a given configuration of motherboard+CPU+peripherals, until you drive that configuration hard enough to overdrive the PSU, and it shuts off.

The solution in both cases is the same: you overbuy on PSUs. A good high-wattage-rated power supply (whether a USB one or a desktop molex one) will power anything below that wattage requirement just fine. USB PSUs do negotiate power draw with the client device, so you can run a Pi off a big-brick laptop-class USB charger without damaging it.

And that’s mostly why Raspberry uses USB power, I think: if you already have a big beefy USB PSU from something else (as most early-market adopters do), you can use it to power your Pi for playing around, without having to buy the Pi its own PSU, if you’re not sure you want/need to set it up for its own standalone use-case.

(Also, the Pi will run just fine on a wimpy 5V1A iPhone charger if you don’t tax it very hard. Just like a cheap desktop PSU will power a gaming rig with a beefy GPU, if you never open a game. And most embedded use cases, e.g. PiHole, don’t tax the Pi very hard. So there’s a lot of cases where people get along just fine with the cheapest possible configuration, where forcing them to buy an actual power adapter would make things a lot more expensive for no gain.)

> or they could design Pis to use less power

You know that they stop selling old-model Pi’s, right? It’s not because they want to. It’s because those chips stop being manufactured upstream; and Raspberry doesn’t do enough volume to drive production of SoCs all on their own.

Raspberry is constrained by what parts they can put in a Pi that are both available and sufficient for the use-cases their customers have (e.g. driving monitors at native resolution.) Those chips have minimum power requirements. The power requirements never go down, because there’s no high-volume customer with exactly Raspberry’s use-case (where that use-case is “using process-shrinks to build a graphical desktop SoC of the same performance at ever-lower current draw, rather than achieving ever-higher performance at the same current draw.” An SoC process-shrink that is taken as-is with no commensurate re-layout for increased perf, is extremely rare in the industry. Not rare in microcontrollers, but an MCU can’t drive a desktop computer.)

You might suggest they undervolt the newer chips — and they do! — but there’s only so far you can undervolt a chip before it just stops functioning at all. (Especially an SoC, that contains DRAM that must get refreshed, IO controllers that must drive peripheral lines with to-spec line voltage, etc.)

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#382

This blows my mind. I know, it's much more incremental than it is revolutionary, but I think the form factor achieves a much greater degree of access for many people than a typical Pi whose bare hardware may be a lot more intimidating. Now, it's "just" a computer, which happens to expose a 40-pin connector for the standard Pi hardware fun. And unlike other options you might find, this has the massive built-in communi…

I was talking to some friends who are teachers about remote learning the other day. They were saying many of their students (they work in rural areas) had the devices but no access to internet. It's a very complex issue now with all the restrictions.

Starlink has just started beta service (without requiring an NDA like the pre-beta service did). ~100Mbps and a competitive 20-40ms latency (although I think sometimes you can get worse as the constellation isn't yet fully deployed... some satellites that have already been launched still haven't fully raised themselves to operational orbit, but this is still a Beta service, so that should be addressed within weeks). It’s spendy at $100/month (which is comparable to other, FAR worse, satellite internet options... and some non-satellite broadband in the US costs this much for worse service), but rural folk should qualify for the rural broadband subsidy which should help a lot.

This post shows some unboxing of Starlink: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48297.msg2...

I’m really excited about these LEO satellite constellations just solving the rural/urban digital divide. As launch costs continue to go down (SpaceX’s partially reusable Falcon 9 has already made a massive difference in making this feasible, about a quarter the marginal launch cost per kg, and Starship should enable an order of magnitude improvement on that) and competition increases (OneWeb has been brought through bankruptcy but is starting to launch again, plus Amazon’s Project Kuiper and the potential of launching on the partially reusable New Glenn), it’s an exciting time for the ending of digital poverty in rural areas.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#383
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School computers take a beating. That's why the two are incompatible.

That's one of the reasons the Apple II was so popular with schools. It was built like a tank.

The Bell & Howell version came in Darth Vader black too: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/appleII-bell-and...

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this one isn't bad. I've run it on everything down to 8 bit AVR. I haven't tried 6502 but it would fit no problem. http://hoult.org/primes.txt

My concern is that almost anything that fits in a C64 will run out of the L1 cache in most modern CPUs and yield very unrealistic results compared to reasonable modern workloads.

I think that's a valid result in its own way, though. It's not the poor C64's fault that we insist on chewing through megabytes and gigabytes just to run a chat app.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#385

This blows my mind. I know, it's much more incremental than it is revolutionary, but I think the form factor achieves a much greater degree of access for many people than a typical Pi whose bare hardware may be a lot more intimidating. Now, it's "just" a computer, which happens to expose a 40-pin connector for the standard Pi hardware fun. And unlike other options you might find, this has the massive built-in communi…

Does Chrome OS run on Raspberry Pi? How crazy is it that one of the Big Players come in, port their OS to the device, and more or less take it over as just another platform with a Start Menu?

I understand the sentiment, but you know that Raspian, Ubuntu, etc. have all had the equivalent of a start menu for years now, right? =)

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#386
Is there a games/app market like Steam available for non-iOS/Android ARM-based devices? I would love to be able to set this device up for my younger kids, allowing them to play Minecraft and Oregon Trail-style edu-tainment type games while leaving the device open for exploration and tinkering. The walled gardens from the major players are blocked off, and distro-based package managers aren't really suitable. IMHO, one of the best solutions to the fragility of storage would be cloud install/save. Maybe the ecosystem is too fragmented, but hopefully something pops up.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#387
post #364

Is anyone building a RasberryPi powered cellphone? Basically something that has a battery + solar panel + touch screen. A device that is fully operational without any need of peripherals. Or I guess a more useful device would be a laptop. A chromebook equivalent but powered by rasberry pi and is hopefully kid-proof rugged

I have seen some designs, not sure how much to fruition they've been brought (afair they were still in crowdfunding stages). You'll still never own the baseband though, but would have some degree of freedom and/or learning experience. Pitops exist for laptops and there's also some peli case style solutions iirc

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#388
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RPi 4 has USB 3 + UAS which is actually quite decent. I use it for Aarch64 development[1]. It boots and runs entirely off the SSD, and the performance is not spectacular but perfectly usable, and being it's a regular SSD it should be at least as reliable as a laptop. It also has a firmware bug where it cannot boot unless there is an (empty, unused) SD card in the slot, which is annoying! [1] https://rwmj.wordpres…

I boot my RPi 4 entirely from USB with the Sep-3-2020 bootloader. No sd-card inserted. The Sandisk Extreme Pro benchmarks at 230 MB/s on USB 3.0.

Seems like this only affects UEFI bootloaders.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#389

This is so good, I work from home and I've been eyeballing products like this for a while but until now its all been 3rd party. What would really take the cake for me is if they made a version of this but with a battery and wireless charging, then this really would be an exceptional portable desktop pc.

At that point they may as well make it into a laptop.

I guess this is why I was down-voted at first, but it really isn't a laptop if it doesn't have a screen and I don't need one. I think we will see hacks with the pi 400 soon that will have a battery anyway, or one can just disassemble it and attach a power bank to it anyway so I guess the solution is already there.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#390
post #250
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of different ways to state it (often including constraints like price), in part because it's not really a 'law'. But the main thing is, 500k times performance does not represent 'more than doubling' performance on a yearly basis as this comment claims.

BTW it's a doubling every 1.54 years

For the numbers in that pic, it would be every 2-ish, which makes me wonder if the GP just flipped a reciprocal somewhere.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=37+%2F+log+base+2+%284...

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