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How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

bbc.co.uk

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Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#71

There is no such thing as a conspiracy theory. Every conspiracy theory in existence can be explained in terms of math, technology, physics, psychology and behavioral biology. They are conspiracy theories because the average person refuses to believe basic science that was discoveres i the early 1900s. It's 2020 and if you use science and technology from the early to mid 1900s in the right way people get confused and…

> There is no such thing as a conspiracy theory. Every conspiracy theory in existence can be explained in terms of math, technology, physics, psychology and behavioral biology.

I don't know whether that is true of every conspiracy theory, but here is one example that supports your point:

While finishing up teacher's college, I was paired with a maths teacher who believed in 9/11 conspiracy theories and who mentioned them in class. From his point of view, a delayed "explosion" lower down in the tower was evidence that the destruction was planned. Left in an awkward position, I did the only thing I could think of: I used math. Simply put, the time that it would take a shock wave to propagate through the steel structure matched the delay so the "explosion" did not prove his conspiracy theory. That was one heck of a teachable moment that transformed an otherwise abstract math lesson into something that could be applied to every day life.

(Edit: clarification on the intent of the calculation.)

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#72
post #20
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone pro-rationality is anti-q. It's probably on the top of HN because people voted for it. The software that runs this website is on GitHub, you can go see for yourself. Or maybe it's the lizard people trying to suppress the truth of q?

>Or maybe it's the lizard people trying to suppress the truth of q? What purpose does mocking this person's question serve? Do you think you're going to convince them of something by making fun of them?

Yeah, it surely won't convince OP. But public web discussion answers are rarely only intended for the parent poster. Often there is even a "private message" option for those few that are, all others are for the wider audience as well. If something as mockable as q posturing is left unmocked the impression on third parties can be very different than if it is not and the purpose of the reply is (I assume, not the author) this change.

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#73
post #39
post #25

I take such an issue with the portrayal of conspiracy theories like this, that is black and white. As with everything, it's that they encompass a range of things. Many times people have called conspiracy on something that's turned out to be true. It's just as anti-science to be extremely sceptical of everything as it is to be extremely susceptible. Some people believe in lizard people, and some think China is trying…

It is kind of interesting to think about how we got here. If you question anything mainstream these days, or try to discuss an alternative viewpoint, the conversation almost always turns vitriol. It's unfortunate, because there have been a lot of "conspiracy theories" that have been shown fully- or partially-true with time, but people seem to be very cult-like in their beliefs, even if they don't truly understand the…

A really interesting example of this is the whole glyphosate case that /r/environment goes nuts over.

On the one hand, nearly every scientific, health and farming community in the world says using glyphosate is safe. Yet there was a legal case that said otherwise - so /r/environment jumped on that as truth. Legal precedence science does not make.

Thinking like that also makes it really easy to create new laws, e.g. that homosexuality is an affront to god and should be illegal. Then claim it as scientific fact for the opposing side.

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#75
post #12
post #9

The anti-Q articles are out in full force the last few days... Why is this on HN's front page again?

Anyone pro-rationality is anti-q. It's probably on the top of HN because people voted for it. The software that runs this website is on GitHub, you can go see for yourself. Or maybe it's the lizard people trying to suppress the truth of q?

Q is so out there that I suspect it was made to "poison the well" so to speak. When it appeared there was some genuine controversy regarding certain political persons and their associates instagram profiles where they posed with fistful of euros, drugs and various children who literally looked like they were nabbed from the streets. Also terms such as "chicken lover" was frequently used in association to pictures of grown men holding little kids.

I am not saying that comet ping pong has a rape dungeon, but its undisputable that they had some pretty wierd entertainment shows featuring "not so kid friendly" nudity, anal insertions etc.

For me Q seems to be a useful excuse for the media to assert censorship and filtration of information. Its just noise put out for those who actively seek out the fringe or the controversial. Like when political forums are bombarded with flat earthers, same shit. Just useful idiots used to spread noise. I believe its some letter soup shenanigans to be honest.

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#76
post #24

I've been in these conversations several times recently. My tips: Go in friendly. Make an effort to assume and embody good will and rationality. The premise of most conspiratorial thinking is very dichotomous. They see themselves as the open minded against dismissive, closed minded opposition. Don't play into this by being dismissive. Be generous instead and assume that they are truth seeking just like you. Don't be…

Have you ever had any success with this method; did you ever get anyone (sooner or later) to understand he had been deluded?

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#77
post #24

I've been in these conversations several times recently. My tips: Go in friendly. Make an effort to assume and embody good will and rationality. The premise of most conspiratorial thinking is very dichotomous. They see themselves as the open minded against dismissive, closed minded opposition. Don't play into this by being dismissive. Be generous instead and assume that they are truth seeking just like you. Don't be…

Do you have any data on the form their mind is creating to hold these theories "true"? The form could be factual data (lists of things) supporting or disproving their theory, creative imagery (internally seen things) obscuring what is normally viewed as reality, or perhaps sound or voices in the form of hallucinations (internally heard things).

After armchair analyzing this for nearly 4 years, I'm pretty sure Trump is a "bigly visualizer" and has some ability? to make others see what he is seeing, while at the same time filtering facts that thinking mind might normally bring.

To clarify, when I mean facts I mean non-imagery or non- sound/vibration based data forms: words, labels, conditionals, etc., which are used to form a process which may be followed by another to arrive at the same "conclusion" to what is currently being seen through our collective awareness.

It would seem about 43% or more of the population of the United States is infected with a means of operation which eliminates or completely disables critical thinking mechanisms and relies exclusively on internal fabricated imagery or audio for their measure of "truth".

Maybe narcissism has gone mainstream here.

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#78
post #61
post #46

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the interesting parallel with religion here. Belief in a deity is also --in some eyes-- totally irrational. It can cause similar harm and sometimes also divides families, e.g. when people want to 'get out': Jehovas witnesses, scientology, ... Let's face it, collectively, we're not as rational as we like to believe.

Who’s we? I doubt anyone would claim that most people are rational.

Didn't some economists claim exactly that?

"economic man, is the portrayal of humans as agents who are consistently rational, narrowly self-interested, and who pursue their subjectively-defined ends optimally"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_economicus

Re: How I talk to the victims of conspiracy theories

#80

There is no such thing as a conspiracy theory. Every conspiracy theory in existence can be explained in terms of math, technology, physics, psychology and behavioral biology. They are conspiracy theories because the average person refuses to believe basic science that was discoveres i the early 1900s. It's 2020 and if you use science and technology from the early to mid 1900s in the right way people get confused and…

BS. The US Govt reading middle-manning internet connections was pants-on-head stupid conspiracy theory until Snowden

I strongly disagree. That theory (before Snowden) was never in the same category as flat earth, QAnon, lizard people, faked moon landings and the like.
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