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Google users locked out after 15 years' use

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Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#391
post #362

Happened to me too after 10 years of Gmail use. Exactly the same story. No explanation. As I remember at that time I checked Google servers data as to uptime—the data was public, not sure about now—and it appeared that there was a serious problem with servers right before I was blocked. It looked like Google just completely lost data in some server cluster. Anyway, there was no way to get any response from Google or…

How is OneDrive different in this sense?

Office 365 is overall better

plus, never seen anyone complaining about getting their officce account deleted into void

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#392
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The phone company can’t just randomly cut off service and ghost me. Regulators are the reason for that, as I’m sure they’d love to if they could. If you're paying your bill, why would they care? Regulation is part of the answer, but it's also part of the problem. If a YouTube comment wasn't at risk of "being mean" or breaking arbitrary rules (pushed by regulators, Google isn't doing it on their own), you couldn't b…

> Corporations don't gain by cancelling their customers. Sure they do. If a certain customer's behaviour is alienating or obstructing other customers, then that customer gets cancelled, because they are having a negative impact (on the business - not the users!) that is larger than the benefit they provide. That's a net positive result. Ignoring your whole concept of "mean", it is 100% up to the company to decide wha…

The blurring of and overlap/cooperation between corporation and gov't also shifts incentives. For example, you can skirt fiduciary responsibility by appealing to regulation.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#393
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting point here actually - number porting was viewed to be core to a telecoms service operator. They have to provide it free of charge as a cost of doing business. Perhaps we need similar for email forwarding - it's clear that the major email platforms (Google, Microsoft) can already handle mail that is simply deferred to another mail server (see partial cloud email transitions). Perhaps we need the same fo…

It's also worth remembering that number portability didn't happen on its own: incumbent telcos fought against it tooth and nail.

Absolutely. Perhaps an angle for the current ongoing antitrust/anticompetitive behaviour investigations going on in the House?

Incumbent telcos fought portability, but in the end it has become a "given". There's no reason OTT services can't also have the same - email is already federated. I could see issues around whether people should be able to "port" their email and still send using their old "From" address (not least SPF/DKIM technical aspects), but the ability to receive seems an obvious one that could be handled.

The challenge for OTT services is that absent regulation to force it, if an email provider goes down, there's nobody to step up and continue to provide the relay service.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#394

A good start would be to require by law from Google and similar other companies to actually give a reason for an account suspension, having to potentially put a real human on the line ought to bring them pause and ensure there are less frivolous suspensions. That said, the real answer is, of course, to migrate to a domain name you do own and a provider that's not known for suspending accounts willy-nilly, I'd stop ju…

What do you do when you already have history with Google? I use their OAuth whenever I can, all my accounts on the internet use the gmail address, most of my life is in gmail. Losing emails is not a bug deal, I can back them up, but losing Oauth accounts and ability to reset passwords for accounts I don't have a password saved in my manager is a bigger concern. Does anyone have any suggestions?

The only way to get around your dependence on OAuth connections is to migrate off of them, one at a time.

My suggestion would be to get your own domain, get an email service that supports wildcard email addresses, and get a password manager. Start migrating your accounts one by one, until you no longer depend on your gmail account for OAuth.

It will be tedious, but for most websites you can update your email address in under a minute. Put a movie on and knock them out in an afternoon.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#395
post #60

This is genuinely scary. Photos, Yale locks, Fi, WiFi and Nest thermostat can all be poof gone because I made a silly YouTube comment? How is this not regulated? Google photos also 'helpfully' offers to delete your uploaded photos with 'some guarantee'!!! If this isn't an indication of a giant shitty monopoly that doesn't care about its customers at all, I don't what is. They have some AI ML fucking crap but can't fi…

> How is this not regulated?

It doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be). Just use an email provider that respects you as a customer and don't put all your eggs into one corporate basket (especially not one that treats you as nothing more than data cattle). Horror stories like this one will, over time, educate people that this behavior pattern is dangerous.

IMO self-hosting is the ideal because that aligns responsibility with incentive (and it can be done extremely cheaply), but if not, there are paid email services that actually treat the user as a customer.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#396
post #351

Everyone saying "I would lose all my e-mail" apparently doesn't know about fetchmail, getmail or even Thunderbird. Just download your mail using IMAP or POP3 and archive it locally. I recently deleted my last Gmail account (that I had since 2001). Before doing it, I tried Google's Checkout to get the data, but it was adking me for "verification" (i.e. more info about me) to finish the download. I just fired up Thunde…

You can also schedule Google Takeout, which gives you a nice .zip or .tgz with mbox files, in addition to all of your other Google information. I have it set to deliver one of these backups every two months automatically.

does this include absolutely everything from your Google account, like all emails with attachments, google photos with album data, youtube videos from your channel, etc? If not, does someone know of a guide out there on how to export all of one's data from Google?

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in the EU, Google are legally obligated to hand over your data under GDPR notice.

If they have it. They can delete your data.

An interesting perspective, but GDPR also requires them to delete data according to policy. If, by their policies, the data should still be held, then you have the right to access it. If they deleted it contrary to policy, that would itself be a breach of GDPR, and you would likely have strong grounds to sue and seek relief. If the data was to be held pending court action and they deleted it, that could get even more serious for them, and into the contempt-of-court territory.

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#398
post #230
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I don't think other providers like Microsoft are much better, but also note that the service is equally bad if you pay for ads or cloud. I'm generally against too much regulation, but given how important e-mails are (access to all sorts of accounts, important messages from clients, tax, etc.), this is a case where a certain service level needs to be mandatory, e.g., unlocking within few hours.

Every time I needed support for my office365 account I got it and it was resolved quickly and professionally. The account size is very small. Microsoft is in another universe compared to google.

Fair point, I was referring to the unpaid version.

With the office 365 support I did have a minor accounting issue that they didn’t intend to fix and support tried some standard responses (I needed the billing company name to be different from the Domain/account name, which isn’t possible and the support didn’t know and asked me to do a bunch of things before I figured out through a post that it’s not possible - an edge case that isn’t too much of an issue unlike being locked out)

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#399
post #243
post #60

This is genuinely scary. Photos, Yale locks, Fi, WiFi and Nest thermostat can all be poof gone because I made a silly YouTube comment? How is this not regulated? Google photos also 'helpfully' offers to delete your uploaded photos with 'some guarantee'!!! If this isn't an indication of a giant shitty monopoly that doesn't care about its customers at all, I don't what is. They have some AI ML fucking crap but can't fi…

If you are a “customer”. How many people pay for google services? I know it’s kind of jerky but I still agree that if you aren’t paying for the service, you have no leg to complain about it.

Google isn't doing this out of the goodness of their heart. They're expecting to make money off of every signup in some way. Directly or indirectly. If they want to continue their dominant status, then they should be responsive in some way to their users.

Sure, they have the right to cut off users any time they like. But it's ultimately self-destructive. Once trust is lost, it's difficult to regain it. I've moved away from my Google dependencies as much as I can, and have urged friends and family to do so as well. I'm only influential with around two dozen people, but once you start multiplying people like me by the millions, then Google has a problem.

And I'd argue it's at least a little immoral. Their services, especially Gmail, were set up in a way to make users highly dependent upon them. Google wanted that dependency for their path to near-monopoly status. To suddenly cut them off without the option of support or a clean exit creates real world chaos as the users try to pick up the pieces. Your email address might not be used much socially these days, but it's crucial for business contacts. For logins and customer interactions. The loss of it can cause serious damage. Google may not be legally responsible for the damage caused by a user's loss of their free services, but they're arguably morally responsible. Maybe they should pop up a warning to everyone using Gmail: "Don't rely on us. We're not going to do anything to help you if you can't use it one day."

Re: Google users locked out after 15 years' use

#400
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a “customer”. How many people pay for google services? I know it’s kind of jerky but I still agree that if you aren’t paying for the service, you have no leg to complain about it.

We do not pay for a home address, and yet people can still reach us there. Email is just as important as physical mail -- the problem is that the economic model changed. This means there is no incentive to maintain service, even though (in my mind) in the modern era an email address is possibly more important to a person for day-to-day communication.

> We do not pay for a home address

What? You don't pay paxes in your country? No rent to the owner of your house or paid for owning the house yourself? What country is that?

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