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I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

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Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#221

Post by lukifer »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #132
lukifer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idea: a [view count] link. Once clicked, votes are ignored for that comment. You can vote, or get the social proof, but not both.

No. It's overly complicated for the problem that's trying to be solved. I would have to weigh voting on a comment against seeing how many other people voted on it for EVERY comment. I just want to scan smart comments and learn the sides of an issue quickly. What is the problem we're trying to solve again, anyways? And do the multiple downsides mentioned here multiple times (and heavily upvoted each time) really outwe…

The problem is groupthink. Even HN is not immune.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#222

Post by hallmark »

tokenadult wrote: post #195

When I first started reading HN I learned a TON very quickly and everyday about completely new stuff, and was able to do so because I could easily sort through the legitimacy of opinions based on their upvotes. And yet the founder of HN said 25 days ago that there is a problem with HN, "the decreasing quality of comment threads on HN." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He summed up the problem by saying "Th…

I feel compelled to respond to one particular point: Yes, you can LOOK UP facts for yourself rather than rely on the vote count of a comment. But honestly, the expansive tome of information that is HN is not just a series of threaded facts. There is a vast amount of advice, warnings, interpretations, and arguments based on deep experiences and personal trials that are not subject to a simple Google search.

We hold up individual critical thinking to such high esteem that we seem to dismiss the value in the collected opinions of others.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#223

Post by ilitirit »

I think the best solution would be for everyone to just start posting "better" commentary (and submissions), and revert back to the old ways of downvoting things that add no value to the discussion.

The "old" HN was a lot drier (for lack of a better word), but the discussions were generally much more informative and/or insightful. I remember people complaining about getting downvoted for a comment that would have probably gotten many upvotes on other sites, and I was always pleased to that these in turn were downvoted as well. This doesn't seem to happen any more though, which is a shame IMO.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#224

Post by J3L2404 »

_delirium wrote: post #142
joelangeway wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put that excellently. Indeed, Hacker News was and should be a place where social proof is not desired.

Only in comments, or should we apply that to submissions also? If it weren't for using social proof to decide which stories should be highlighted, why do we have a voting-based front page?

Indeed, we should all wander through the net with no inkling of others opinions in order to mitigate some dubious risk. Enlightened people read every article, decide for themselves and then sit silently.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#226

Post by fleitz »

The only thing you're no longer learning is groupthink. Be glad you aren't learning it.

It's easy to learn in person, just parrot what everyone else is saying. You don't need HN to learn it.

You realize that people game the upvote system right? Writing karma whore comments is so easy when you know the votes. If you really want to know the votes, just reverse engineer the algorithm, it will show you the relative votes.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#228

Post by random42 »

tokenadult wrote: post #195

When I first started reading HN I learned a TON very quickly and everyday about completely new stuff, and was able to do so because I could easily sort through the legitimacy of opinions based on their upvotes. And yet the founder of HN said 25 days ago that there is a problem with HN, "the decreasing quality of comment threads on HN." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He summed up the problem by saying "Th…

How about this solution to improve the readability of HN threads, without degrading the quality of comments/discussion?

1. Show comment-ranges. (1-, 0, 1, 2-10, 10-50 etc.), instead of absolute values. This indicates the quality of a comment, without promoting/prompting voting, based on existing votes (that much.)

2. Do not show username (use a placeholder for profile link). This will solve the problem of "instinctive" up(/down?)voting from commenter's fan base.

3. Any related changes required in the UX, to bubble the better comments more visibility.

Re: I don't learn anything on HN anymore, bring back the upvote count

#230

Post by tpatke »

random42 wrote: post #228
tokenadult wrote: post #195

When I first started reading HN I learned a TON very quickly and everyday about completely new stuff, and was able to do so because I could easily sort through the legitimacy of opinions based on their upvotes. And yet the founder of HN said 25 days ago that there is a problem with HN, "the decreasing quality of comment threads on HN." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He summed up the problem by saying "Th…

How about this solution to improve the readability of HN threads, without degrading the quality of comments/discussion? 1. Show comment-ranges. (1-, 0, 1, 2-10, 10-50 etc.), instead of absolute values. This indicates the quality of a comment, without promoting/prompting voting, based on existing votes (that much.) 2. Do not show username (use a placeholder for profile link). This will solve the problem of "instinctiv…

I agree with point #2. I use karma points when scanning comments and read a selection of "pre-filtered" comments. ...user names don't provide much value and I am always slightly disappointed when the most popular comment was made by a popular user.

Valuing ideas should not be a popularity context.

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