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Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

arstechnica.com

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Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#81

Post by mkjones »

JoeCortopassi wrote: post #33
ekanes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random abuse against innocent people isn't really the moral solution. Public complaints and negative press for Facebook is a better way.

Didn't say it was moral, but it's the only way Facebook listens to complaints

I wasn't involved with this particular situation, but I work at Facebook and am a pretty avid HN lurker - so "we" (in some sense) definitely listen to what people are talking (and complaining) about.

I (and I think some others, like @finiteloop) always try to drop a comment when discussion on here is relevant to stuff we work on.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#82

Post by hobbes »

paulcjeffries wrote: post #79

I'm Paul C. Jeffries, Head of Legal Operations at Facebook, where I work with the team that handles incoming notices of intellectual property infringement. I wanted to provide a little color about what happened in this situation. As you may have heard, today we investigated a number of recent trademark (intellectual property) takedowns, and as a result of this investigation we restored four Facebook Pages. We apologi…

Boilerplate.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#83

Post by nolanw »

paulcjeffries wrote: post #79

I'm Paul C. Jeffries, Head of Legal Operations at Facebook, where I work with the team that handles incoming notices of intellectual property infringement. I wanted to provide a little color about what happened in this situation. As you may have heard, today we investigated a number of recent trademark (intellectual property) takedowns, and as a result of this investigation we restored four Facebook Pages. We apologi…

A very little color.

Can you add anything that wasn't in the originally-posted article? For example, answers to any of these questions:

Why was the accused infringer of trademarks not given specific, actionable information about the trademarks in question? You state that the reporter is required to provide additional information in many cases. Assuming this was one of those cases, why was this additional information not shared with the accused infringer? (And if this was not one of those cases, why mention this at all?)

You invoke the DMCA, citing it as obligating you to take appropriate action. Was the action taken in this case the most appropriate one? Who decides what's appropriate here, Facebook or the relevant laws?

Care to discuss any of your specialized tools, systems, and technology to review and properly handle IP notices? I can't speak for others, but their mere presence says little to me.

No sane person expects a perfect system. We're just curious about the particular circumstances of this particular case, and you have a reasonable audience here who would love for you to share some of them.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#84

Post by fuckoff »

dfranke wrote: post #49
ck2 wrote: post #10

Counter-notice, but only if you are positive it's a bogus takedown. https://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca/counter512.pdf (not actually a pdf) They have to put it back online with a counter-notice.

They have to put it back online with a counter-notice. No they don't. Doing so merely gives them safe harbor from any liability for having taken it down. Facebook has no legal obligation to its members to maintain the content in the first place, and therefore no obligation to pay attention to a counter-notice.

Yes they do. Read the law.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#85

Post by fuckoff »

dfranke wrote: post #49
ck2 wrote: post #10

Counter-notice, but only if you are positive it's a bogus takedown. https://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca/counter512.pdf (not actually a pdf) They have to put it back online with a counter-notice.

They have to put it back online with a counter-notice. No they don't. Doing so merely gives them safe harbor from any liability for having taken it down. Facebook has no legal obligation to its members to maintain the content in the first place, and therefore no obligation to pay attention to a counter-notice.

Yes they do. Read the law.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#86

Post by smackfu »

leon_ wrote: post #56

> At least the help page has a contact e-mail address, but we have received no response as of yet. You could assume a $50 bil. company would have something like a customer service ...

Same problem as Google: how do you provide customer service to the 0.1% of customers that have a unique problem that needs human intervention, without it being hidden by the other 99.9% that are asking FAQs?

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#87

Post by PonyGumbo »

michaelpinto wrote: post #50

If Facebook wants to scale they need to learn about customer service — maybe not so much for their individual users, but for businesses. I recently helped a consumer brand client clean up her Facebook presence which was a mess — their interface was impossible for typical bricks-and-mortor biz owner to decipher.

If Facebook wants to scale?

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#88

Post by user9756 »

PonyGumbo wrote: post #87
michaelpinto wrote: post #50

If Facebook wants to scale they need to learn about customer service — maybe not so much for their individual users, but for businesses. I recently helped a consumer brand client clean up her Facebook presence which was a mess — their interface was impossible for typical bricks-and-mortor biz owner to decipher.

If Facebook wants to scale?

Yeah, you know, beyond earth.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#89

Post by lukeschlather »

mattdeboard wrote: post #75
hartror wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure we still use email, our website/forums and even a tray app. But nothing gets the response Facebook engenders so if we were cut off from that we would take a serious hit, probably not business threatening but certainly it would cut revenues enough that I wouldn't be surprised if jobs were in the firing line (not information I am privy so just a guess).

Well, it might be just me, but I think the best place to position your brand the strongest online is your domain. That is where you should put your resources. Relying in such a big way on Facebook that a lot of companies seem to do just seems ludicrous. Especially now. Why would a business EVER want to put their marketing strategy's balls firmly in Facebook's control? (I'm using the generic "you" here, not specifical…

Their "marketing strategy's balls" are firmly in Facebook's control regardless, because their customers don't have a firm grasp of the distinction between a Facebook page and a stand-alone domain. (In terms of what it takes for a Facebook page to disappear vs. a domain.)

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#90

Post by GeorgFechner »

paulcjeffries wrote: post #79

I'm Paul C. Jeffries, Head of Legal Operations at Facebook, where I work with the team that handles incoming notices of intellectual property infringement. I wanted to provide a little color about what happened in this situation. As you may have heard, today we investigated a number of recent trademark (intellectual property) takedowns, and as a result of this investigation we restored four Facebook Pages. We apologi…

Dear Paul, I am German lawyer, facebook-Fan and I found a trademark "facebook" that is registerd by an Individual in the German Trademark-Register (DE 302010048481). The opposition deadline ends may, 18.th. If I can file the opossition let me know. I would love to do it. Best regards Georg Fechner (fechner@uvh.de)
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