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Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

raspberrypi.org

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Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#151

Post by deeringc »

krageon wrote: post #114
qz2 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbish. They do. My daughter's school has a pile of knackered Pi's that the teachers don't have the time and budget to fix. Broken connectors, duff microSDs, bricks. They don't use them now, preferring python on windows.

I'm sure your experiences are legitimate, just like mine for similar usage profiles are. My only conclusion can be that it's not the hardware itself that's the problem, unless we allow for the possibility that it's different batching. Unlikely, but not unthinkable.

But we've already established that these are meant for "the promotion of teaching basic computer science in schools and in developing countries". In these situations with young, untrained hands, durability and robustness are absolutely key criteria. It's not good value if it ends up discarded/broken due to additional complexity or a fault.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#152

Post by qwertox »

ejolto wrote: post #62
qz2 wrote: post #59

Can we please have a Pi without a crappy storage interface. It's either a microSD card or something dangling off USB. An M2 SATA or NVMe would make this credible but 99% of the problems I've had with the Pi platform is storage related, either being knackered microSD cards, terrible performance or USB power problems.

Sounds like you're not the target audience for a RPi. They are meant to be cheap computers for "the promotion of teaching basic computer science in schools and in developing countries"[0]. Adding NVMe support would increase the price. There are alternatives to RPi that do what you want, odroid-h2plus for example. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

If would make sense to be able to attach a $25 32GB SSD to the bottom of a RPI. Then add some kind of a U-shaped connector to connect the RPI to the SSD and a place for the screws, so that they are fixed back to back.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#153

Post by lmns »

chaos_a wrote: post #97
qz2 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbish. They do. My daughter's school has a pile of knackered Pi's that the teachers don't have the time and budget to fix. Broken connectors, duff microSDs, bricks. They don't use them now, preferring python on windows.

sounds like people simply weren't taking any care of them, that's why they broke. If they had cases and decent sd cards that probably wouldn't have happened.

SD cards with wear leveling and error correction are hard to find and can easily be more expensive than similar SSDs.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#154

Post by pizza234 »

ejolto wrote: post #62
qz2 wrote: post #59

Can we please have a Pi without a crappy storage interface. It's either a microSD card or something dangling off USB. An M2 SATA or NVMe would make this credible but 99% of the problems I've had with the Pi platform is storage related, either being knackered microSD cards, terrible performance or USB power problems.

Sounds like you're not the target audience for a RPi. They are meant to be cheap computers for "the promotion of teaching basic computer science in schools and in developing countries"[0]. Adding NVMe support would increase the price. There are alternatives to RPi that do what you want, odroid-h2plus for example. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

eMMC storage are comparatively very fast, and I believe they have a comparatively little or negligible impact on the end price (competitors like Hardkernel put it in the directly competing products).

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#155

Post by jonp888 »

ejolto wrote: post #62
qz2 wrote: post #59

Can we please have a Pi without a crappy storage interface. It's either a microSD card or something dangling off USB. An M2 SATA or NVMe would make this credible but 99% of the problems I've had with the Pi platform is storage related, either being knackered microSD cards, terrible performance or USB power problems.

Sounds like you're not the target audience for a RPi. They are meant to be cheap computers for "the promotion of teaching basic computer science in schools and in developing countries"[0]. Adding NVMe support would increase the price. There are alternatives to RPi that do what you want, odroid-h2plus for example. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

This is misleading. You have removed the first part of that sentence "Early on, the Raspberry Pi project leaned towards..."

Whilst education is still important, particularly on the charity side, these days the RPi Trading division explicitly targets multiple markets, for instance, the compute boards specifically targeted at industrial usage. This product is described in their own press release as targeting the christmas toy market amongst others.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#156

Post by qwertox »

krageon wrote: post #81
qz2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools don't want to be debugging microSD and USB issues.

Except these problems don't occur for most people, as evidenced by the fact that the current system works fine. Complaints like yours are relatively rare.

> Complaints like yours are relatively rare.

I've stopped complaining because I already know how the issue manifests and how to solve it.

A SD-card is not a proper replacement for a drive, it's a fine storage medium.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#157

Post by Foivos »

Is the USB-C only for power?

Could you plug it in a monitor directly through USB-C, so that you could have display and power (and possible access to the hub of the monitor) through single cable?

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#158

Post by ejolto »

pizza234 wrote: post #154
ejolto wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're not the target audience for a RPi. They are meant to be cheap computers for "the promotion of teaching basic computer science in schools and in developing countries"[0]. Adding NVMe support would increase the price. There are alternatives to RPi that do what you want, odroid-h2plus for example. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

eMMC storage are comparatively very fast, and I believe they have a comparatively little or negligible impact on the end price (competitors like Hardkernel put it in the directly competing products).

The RPI compute modules already use eMMC flash. RPi Compute Module 1 was released in 2014 and uses eMMc flash.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#159

Post by lmns »

krageon wrote: post #81
qz2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools don't want to be debugging microSD and USB issues.

Except these problems don't occur for most people, as evidenced by the fact that the current system works fine. Complaints like yours are relatively rare.

How do you know that complaints about the storage system are rare?

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#160

Post by KaiserPro »

geerlingguy wrote: post #13

I was lucky to get a pre-release version to test, and I decided to tear it down before I started trying it out. I posted this blog post with detailed pictures of the insides, and some more details and performance benchmarks: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/raspberry-pi-400-tear... There are also a couple videos linked in the post, if you're more visually-inclined. Fun fact: the Pi 400 (and Compute Module 4) bo…

Excellent, I was looking for this sort of info.

(side note, I love the ansible roles you've made, especially AWX, saved me a bunch of time back in 2018)

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