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David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

nymag.com

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#21
post #2

> And I think the real synthesis of these views is that Obama-to-Trump voters are motivated by racism. Hmm. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/opinion/biden-latino-vote... > We began by asking eligible voters how “convincing” they found a dog-whistle message lifted from Republican talking points... Almost three out of five white respondents judged the message convincing. More surprising, exactly the same percentage o…

I think this sort of response to the interview misses the forest for the trees. This is the best article on elections I have ever read. When I first read it I felt for the first time I understood how the game is scored. These two quotes stand out and are what matter: > Persuadable voters trust the parties on different issues. And there’s a pretty basic pattern — both here and in other countries — in which voters view…

I agree the advice is astute. But you don’t necessarily get to pick what to talk about. Luckily, this election became a referendum on COVID—where the general empathetic association of Democrats plays strongly. But say COVID hadn’t happened. Instead, the last major pre-election issue was what happened this summer and law-and-order issues? (As Schor notes, this issue favors Republicans.) A whole lot of progressive Democrats turned a blind eye to police stations being burned down, etc. They had to: they had backed themselves into an ideological corner where they accepted the premise that any focus on the breakdown of law and order was “racist.” This was an incredibly unpopular position not only among white voters, but Hispanic voters of all ages and many older Black voters. Luckily, Biden was positioned to be able to say he understood the need for reform while having no soft spot for rioting. But Trump would have steamrolled over any of the other Democratic candidates by throwing their 2019 primary rhetoric back at them. And just not talking about the issue would have been a total non-starter—that’s what would have been on voters’ mind.

Democrats need positions in immigration and policing that aren’t the ones we saw from progressives over the past year and a half. Biden’s are fine. But within progressives’ current orthodoxy, Biden’s views would be deemed extremely “problematic” if Trump wasn’t there to be the bad guy.

I’ll give you another concrete example. Elizabeth Warren consistently used the term “LatinX.” This term actually polls terribly among Latinos. 70% have never heard of it. Of the 30% that have, the majority think it shouldn’t be used as a label to identify Latinos. Just 2% identified with the term themselves. Why use it? Because the people who work for Elizabeth Warren think the term “Latinos” isn’t gender inclusive. Schor would say not to use this term because of a high risk of alienating voters you need. But as Schor recognizes, the ideology of the campaign staffers has a powerful effect on the campaign’s messaging.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is obviously racist and divisive.

Curious that you're downvoted without comment. I was hoping some of your detractors would've explained why they think you're wrong. As an outsider to the US bunfight, your statement seems, based on what we see, pretty self-evident.

> Curious that you're downvoted without comment [...] As an outsider to the US bunfight, your statement seems, based on what we see, pretty self-evident.

I didn't cast any vote in the thread, but here's an explanation. If I did decide to vote, I would definitely downvote it, since it only repeats a cliche that has been said over a thousand times, even though I, too, consider it as "fact". The problem is, saying "Trump is racist and divisive" does not add any new insight to the discussion, and the only outcome is attracting angry yelling from the most politically biased people, hence triggering an unproductive flamewar (I think you've just experienced exactly what I described. When you said "what in the god damn was that", I think you could see my points already). When I see something like this, I usually downvotes all related comments and their replies regardless of which side they're arguing for (thus, all angry pro-Trump and anti-Trump comments would be downvoted - only downvoting the original thread is unfair), as nothing good can come out of it.

I believe this strategy can promote what the Hacker News Guidelines is trying to achieve.

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

Saying either "$controversial_politician is good" or "$controversial _politician is bad" violates all of those Guidelines above.

For controversial political discussions, I found the worst thing you can do is posting a general criticism, such as "$something is bad". Instead of doing that, a better strategy is talking about a specific issue, for example, instead of saying "$politician is bad", it's better to pick and criticize one of his policies, and to analyse its perceived harmful effects due to the policy. The more specific the criticism, the better. While it's still saying "$politican is bad", but it contains new insights and information that prevent the discussion from being dragged into a name-calling flamewar (it may still be a flamewar, but with fewer name-calling posts and more discussions). I found it dramatically improves the quality of discussions.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#23
post #2

> And I think the real synthesis of these views is that Obama-to-Trump voters are motivated by racism. Hmm. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/opinion/biden-latino-vote... > We began by asking eligible voters how “convincing” they found a dog-whistle message lifted from Republican talking points... Almost three out of five white respondents judged the message convincing. More surprising, exactly the same percentage o…

Elizabeth Warren’s primary campaign message was mainly focused on the economy, not race.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#26
post #23
post #2

> And I think the real synthesis of these views is that Obama-to-Trump voters are motivated by racism. Hmm. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/opinion/biden-latino-vote... > We began by asking eligible voters how “convincing” they found a dog-whistle message lifted from Republican talking points... Almost three out of five white respondents judged the message convincing. More surprising, exactly the same percentage o…

Elizabeth Warren’s primary campaign message was mainly focused on the economy, not race.

Yes, but the major difference between her and Sanders was that she’d thread race through every issue. As an academic matter this works just fine—failing municipal water systems are disproportionately ones that affect people of color. As a matter of political rhetoric (I watched her in person at several events in Iowa last year) it’s actually quite off-putting. Also, her tripping over the phrase “LatinX” (which just 2% of Latinos identify with, and 70% have never even heard of.)

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#27
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s one of Shor’s weak er arguments. Shor is a self-described progressive who wants to help elect Democrats. He’s mostly useful as a critic of the left from the centre. His “facts don’t care about your feelings” rebuttals of leftist fantasies are incredibly useful to both the centre and the left. (This also got him fired on the first day of Floyd protests when he posted research showing that the riots will bac…

he didn't even post the research - he re-tweeted the research of a black academic that showed that violent protests are less successful that non-violent ones. His firing was a travesty.

His firing was him getting off incredibly easy. He deserves much, much worse.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in the god damn was that. 1) Stop capitalising "white". 2) "little old White women are prohibited from attending church" - [citation needed] 3) "popularisation of "Karen" racist dialogue" - how is this racist?

Many people and even some mainstream outlets capitalise "Black" but deliberately avoid doing so for "white", including in a HN post within the last 24h. If they insist on making this petty distinction, I'll happily play along.

It’s crazy how racists like you still live and breathe.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment lives in an alternative reality. Calling someone a Karen is racist? Please.

It depends how you define racism! According to "Defining Racism" by Beverly Daniel Tatum, it isn't. But in other interpretations of the word, it would be. I don't think it's far fetched to assume it might rightfully feel like a racist slur to the grand-parent. Whether racism or not, it's probably an -ism of some sort. Despite disagreeing with the GP, at least their painting of "Karen" as an -ism gave me pause and mad…

Shut up, Karen.

Re: David Shor’s Unified Theory of American Politics

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is obviously racist and divisive.

I mean... I thought so in 2016, but four years later, I simply do not believe this. There is no evidence to support this. He has constantly condemned white supremacy. He obviously is a nationalist, but for America, being a multi-racial nation, saying one is a nationalist does not mean you are a racist. Trump has delivered insane results for minority groups, and has done things even supposed 'progressive' candidates w…

Cool anecdotes. I still want to see ditches full of the bodies of trump supporters, and nothing will change my mind.
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