The cheap pen that changed writing forever • Hacker News Board

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#81

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

ascar wrote: post #60

kaonwarb wrote: post #2

One side effect not discussed here: how the shift to ballpoint pens increased hand strain [0]. Writing with a fountain pen is relatively effortless - not to deny it has several other drawbacks. I imagine this is part of why, as an elementary school student in France, I was required to write with only fountain pens. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballp...

On the other hand, using a fountain pen is incredibly frustrating and exhausting for left-handed people (in a left to right writing system). I had to unnaturally bend my hand above the line I wanted to write so I don't immediately smear the ink. Basically mimiking a right-hand draw position with the left hand while having your hand above the line instead of on the same level. It hurts. We were also forced to use it i…

[deleted]

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#82

Post by BeetleB » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

wdb wrote: post #70

kaonwarb wrote: post #2

One side effect not discussed here: how the shift to ballpoint pens increased hand strain [0]. Writing with a fountain pen is relatively effortless - not to deny it has several other drawbacks. I imagine this is part of why, as an elementary school student in France, I was required to write with only fountain pens. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballp...

I prefer writing with fountain pen, you don't get that scratching feeling like you have with a ballpoint.

High quality ball points are a lot less scratchy than the cheap ones. I've used some that are definitely less scratchy than a fountain pen with a fine nib.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#83

Post by BeetleB » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #58

Cancan82 wrote: post #6

I recently switched to a fountain pen - way easier to write with and way less tension. Neil Gaiman suggested it and so I gave it a shot. Never going back - my handwriting is better (but I write cursive) and it is easier to write longer without strain. That said - super cool story.

I love fountain pens too, and recently tried to switch back to my classic Parker 45. Sadly, the plastic lining of the reservoir had perished, so the pen wouldn't suck ink up. I tried a replacement reservoir, but it didn't work. So I tried a different type, with a screw based impeller mechanism, and got ink all over my fingers and desk. Some of the ink went up into the reservoir, but wouldn't flow back down through th…

Apart from Lamy Safari, another option is the Pilot Metropolitan. If you want smooth writing, get a Medium or larger. Pilot Medium's are the equivalent of Fine in most countries.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#84

Post by BeetleB » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

karlding wrote: post #32

NewOrderNow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, once I used one, there is no no going back. You can certainly go deep with ink and pens and whatnot, but you can buy a Lamy for cheap on Amazon and just stick with cartridges and still get a far superior result. If anyone feel like their writing is sloppy and avoid writing because of it, try a fountain pen.

For what it's worth, the consensus on /r/fountainpens and other fountain pen enthusiast sites is that you risk receiving counterfeit Lamy Safari pens when purchasing from Amazon. These fakes often have poor quality nibs and ruin people's first experience with fountain pens. The recommendation is to purchase a pen through a reputable dealer so you know that you are getting the real thing. There's a post here on Imgur…

Goulet Pens (https://www.gouletpens.com/) is a good place to buy FP items.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#85

Post by shinycode » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

m463 wrote: post #26

kaonwarb wrote: post #2

One side effect not discussed here: how the shift to ballpoint pens increased hand strain [0]. Writing with a fountain pen is relatively effortless - not to deny it has several other drawbacks. I imagine this is part of why, as an elementary school student in France, I was required to write with only fountain pens. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballp...

My favorite pen is the pentel energel 0.7mm. It will write smooth dark lines just the right thicknes without blobbing or cutting out, and is the most effortless pen to write with. But yes, it does write at a higher angle than a fountain pen. I had a fountain pen years and years ago, and it was something you had to want to use. I can't help but think of it like vinyl records, straight razors and film cameras.

I bought and tried hundred of different pens and Pentel Energel 0.7mm are the best. Smooth writing, bold colors, dark black. Now I buy them by pack of ten. Look no futher they are the best

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#86

Post by ajarmst » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

A notable side effect not mentioned is that the biro began the downfall of cursive handwriting, as described by an interesting Atlantic article: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballp...

I still use fountain pens, although that is arguably an affectation--they were already on the way out when I was in school. Cursive reduces the number of times you lift the stylus from the paper, greatly reducing the number of blots or gaps in flow of a fountain pen. Biros don't have that problem. Still, writing in cursive on good paper with a proper fountain pen has an aesthetic that I'd not like to give up.

Arguably, the shift to keyboarding completed cursive's downfall. My children report that, although they did learn cursive in primary school, they now (High School) don't know anyone who uses it. I've had post-secondary students complain that they have difficultly reading cursive comments on submissions, even if I've taken pains to write neatly (I no longer challenge them thus.)

I do find one thing puzzling: why has the effort once expended on teaching elegant cursive not shifted over to instruction in touch typing? None of my students report having had instruction in that (I've polled them several times). It seems odd to me that very so very few of the so-called "digital natives" I work with can challenge the skills I learned on an IBM electric 45 years ago.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#87

Post by ajarmst » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

shinycode wrote: post #85

m463 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite pen is the pentel energel 0.7mm. It will write smooth dark lines just the right thicknes without blobbing or cutting out, and is the most effortless pen to write with. But yes, it does write at a higher angle than a fountain pen. I had a fountain pen years and years ago, and it was something you had to want to use. I can't help but think of it like vinyl records, straight razors and film cameras.

I bought and tried hundred of different pens and Pentel Energel 0.7mm are the best. Smooth writing, bold colors, dark black. Now I buy them by pack of ten. Look no futher they are the best

I went through a similar process many years ago and settled on the Uniball Jetstream for biros and the Kuru Toga for mechanical pencils.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#88

Post by flak48 » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #20

ta8645 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most of us live in a bubble of ballpoint users? It is the most pervasive pen by a pretty wide margin.

I don't think so. I have lived, studied, and taught in three different European countries and everywhere, a sizeable proportion of students used fountain pens (a large majority in the case of France). For my part, I use mostly rollers and fountain pens, and I hate the high pressure needed to use ballpoints. EDIT: In any case, even if most people use only ballpoint pens, it seems very hard to live without ever crossin…

Growing up in India it was pretty common to see others in school use fountain pens, although most (including me) used gel pens due to the impracticality and cost of fountain pens.

Gel pens feel so much better than regular ball point pens and are still almost as cheap.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#89

Post by ajarmst » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

Maha-pudma wrote: post #45

redvenom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also write for long periods of time, and use a mechanical pencil with softer lead (2B). It doesn't replace a pen when you need a pen, but if you just want to avoid hand strain, this is another option.

I always use a pencil over a pen when ever I can. I write a lot outdoors and pens don't work in the rain. And there's also the story of pens and pencils in space I like.

Sadly, that very entertaining story is certainly apocryphal. Pencils have their own problems. A device that sheds conductive graphite into a weightless environment full of electronics is not necessarily an obvious choice, nor is something made out of dry wood and graphite that needs to be regularly shaved into fine strips for a high-oxygen environment.

Re: The cheap pen that changed writing forever

#90

Post by ngcc_hk » Mon, Nov 02, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

Shared404 wrote: post #40

1996 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> greatly disappointed to find it was of Chinese make. May I ask why, as it is not among your requirements? > Am now searching for something that’s of non-Chinese origin Any specific reasons?

I personally try to avoid things manufactured in China due to ethical objections [0]. I don't expect everyone to do so, but I think it's the right thing to do, where possible. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/03/05/china-move...

A great thanks from Hong Kong. Fight we will with Soviet Union 2.0.