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Why we need an Open Wireless movement

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Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#41

Post by alanh »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #40
alanh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't directly, but on the censorship/P2P continuum, it moves a step toward freedom. Using Internet you did not pay for helps voice dissent and helps whistleblowers. It just might be a first step towards the P2P/mesh decentralized utopian Internet of Doctorow is enamored. "Whining"? … I think that is grossly unfair, but it's not a real accusation, is it?

Agreed, whining is perhaps too strong. I don't know where the ends of the censorship/P2P continum are however. I was wondering the other day if a crowd of people wanting to legalize pot started protesting in the streets of Washington and demanding that the government give in to the will of the people, and then Mexican drug lords sent some tanks up to support their efforts, is that freedom? It sounds when I read it li…

The people demanding drug reform would be fantastic, and the Mexican drug gangs is absurd on the face because if growing were legal here, they would have a hell of a lot less business. Not your point, I know.

Decentralization doesn't preclude smart, opt-in filtering, etc., by node operators, FWIW

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#42

Post by erikpukinskis »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

Sigh. How about this idea, we create device that can send digital data by modulating and demodulating sounds which can be sent from one computer to another. Then we'll invent a store and forward protocol where you could type in a message on a local computer, and that message would then move between you and its recipient through a series of jumps we will call "hops." [you know, like its hopping from computer to comput…

The other day, someone walked by with their dog and asked if they could get use our hose to give their dog some water. I bit the bullet, and allowed them to take $0.05 worth of water that I had paid for with my hard earned money.

Same deal here. Connectivity is getting to the point where the costs are so low, you might as well give it away to passersby, because seriously, are we really counting nickels and dimes?

Not free, but cheap enough that most of us can be generous with it.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#43

Post by ChuckMcM »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #42
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

Sigh. How about this idea, we create device that can send digital data by modulating and demodulating sounds which can be sent from one computer to another. Then we'll invent a store and forward protocol where you could type in a message on a local computer, and that message would then move between you and its recipient through a series of jumps we will call "hops." [you know, like its hopping from computer to comput…

The other day, someone walked by with their dog and asked if they could get use our hose to give their dog some water. I bit the bullet, and allowed them to take $0.05 worth of water that I had paid for with my hard earned money. Same deal here. Connectivity is getting to the point where the costs are so low, you might as well give it away to passersby, because seriously, are we really counting nickels and dimes? Not…

Point taken.

I had a really funny experience that kind of relates. My sink had some of those poorly made fiber washers, if you weren't careful, which meant if you over-tightened or under-tightened the sink valve when you closed it, it would drip. Just a little bit, you know drip .... drip .... drip ...

Then California got this whole drought thing going and the water company was asking everyone to cut back. We fixed the faucet and saved a bit over 3% on our total overall water bill.

For me in the US I'm fortunate because water is cheap. I find I can't ignore it though.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#44

Post by yason »

I have an open anonymous wifi setup that doesn't allow eavesdropping.

I have an ADSL/wifi router as my primary access point. It provides a WPA2 encrypted network for my own laptops. Then I have an old secondary wifi router plugged to that one over ethernet. It offers another passwordless network and has some bandwidth-limits in place, does NAT, and provides another subnet over dhcp to anonymous users. You can't use the secondary network to eavesdrop on what happens on the primary router.

When I'm out travelling and find an anonymous wifi myself, I just ssh to my account at a unix box, forward the connection to a remote http/s proxy to my laptop and thus route all my web traffic over ssh via a trusted exit node.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#45

Post by zokier »

Instead of single open access points I would prefer seeing unified mesh network. It is my understanding that the 2.4 GHz spectrum where WiFi is operating is extremely busy, and therefore noisy. Instead of setting up your own AP which competes for a piece of RF spectrum, there should be a way of providing bandwidth and range for neighboring networks. Of course I realize that routing a mesh to internet is quite difficult, so I just keep dreaming on....

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#46

Post by yatsyk »

jarek wrote: post #38
yatsyk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1G costs about $30K if I decide to use my phone in other country, so I'd say that reports about cheap 3G is greatly exaggerated

Or you could just get a local prepaid data SIM

and notify everyone who could potentially call me about my new phone number... I do sometimes but it's far from optimal solution

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#47

Post by mahrain »

Not only do we need an open wireless movement, we need mesh networking amongst mobile internet devices and all wireless routers within reach of each other hooking up to form a carrier-independent infrastructure. There are a few projects working towards the former, however the latter would provide a solid backbone especially if the blank spots can be filled through an internet connection.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#48

Post by sliverstorm »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #42
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

Sigh. How about this idea, we create device that can send digital data by modulating and demodulating sounds which can be sent from one computer to another. Then we'll invent a store and forward protocol where you could type in a message on a local computer, and that message would then move between you and its recipient through a series of jumps we will call "hops." [you know, like its hopping from computer to comput…

The other day, someone walked by with their dog and asked if they could get use our hose to give their dog some water. I bit the bullet, and allowed them to take $0.05 worth of water that I had paid for with my hard earned money. Same deal here. Connectivity is getting to the point where the costs are so low, you might as well give it away to passersby, because seriously, are we really counting nickels and dimes? Not…

The difference is with WiFi, someone can take $50.00 worth of service, and you wouldn't even see their face. If someone tried to come up to your house and take $50.00 of water, you'd probably notice.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#49

Post by IgorPartola »

mahrain wrote: post #47

Not only do we need an open wireless movement, we need mesh networking amongst mobile internet devices and all wireless routers within reach of each other hooking up to form a carrier-independent infrastructure. There are a few projects working towards the former, however the latter would provide a solid backbone especially if the blank spots can be filled through an internet connection.

The biggest problem here is sharing your IP address. I do not want the FBI at my house every time my neighbor downloads something illegal (recent cases show that this does happen). Some level of protection is necessary. NAT for example seems a poor choice. Maybe with IPv6 the FBI would know not to bother the network operator but to go directly to the offender. Or maybe some sort of a part-way link level encryption gateway is the answer.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#50

Post by cgrand-net »

mdaniel wrote: post #17
ry0ohki wrote: post #3

I'm not sure how making your wireless network open is the "socially responsible" thing to do anymore then letting strangers come in and use your bathroom at will is. Sure, most people won't cause any harm, but it only takes one asshole (or too many people taking advantage) to make it a nightmare for you.

FWIW, I believe the idea is to segment the network so you are sharing your bandwidth, but not your "home network." A closer analogy would be letting strangers use the outhouse on your property, but not letting them in the house. The router used by Numericable here in France offers a "guest WiFi" connection out of the box. It is not enabled by default, mind you, but it is available nonetheless.

The routers used by SFR/Neuf and Free have the "guest wifi" on by default. There's even a partnership between SFR/Neuf and Fon.
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