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Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

electrospaces.net

111–120 of 243 posts

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#111
post #34

It's very important that we keep Huawei out of our 5G networks! (what if they discovered things like this and told the citizens about it?)

Please stop equating totalitarian regimes with democracies.

Please stop giving totalitarian tools to governments.

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It honestly worries me that this is the top comment on hacker news. Not because it is wrong (it isn't) but because of all places that website filled with tech workers and experts in the full software stack, full of people that work on and exploit meta data, it still needs to be discussed how important metadata is. If we can't convince people with their ear to the ground, how does one convince the general public. Espe…

The people who visit this website are the people who are paid to create and administer all of this technology. They're not only the last people you would be able to convince of something that would affect their livelihoods, but even the ones who do understand feel like it is part of their duty to deceive the less technically adept about the capabilities and dangers of the technology that they're surrounded with. The…

> The people who visit this website are the people who are paid to create and administer all of this technology.

Exactly, some falsely assume all technologists somehow share an enthusiasm for morality. Many of the most successful technologists I know simply work for the highest pay from military/intelligence contracts.

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#113
So this comes two months after the head of Danish Defense Intelligence Service was relieved of duty for withholding information from watchdogs and violating Danish law [0].

I honestly don't know who should be blamed if there's not enough political capital to reign in these agencies globally. Either the electorate accept it, or don't know about it, which is bad enough in itself.

[0] https://apnews.com/article/32814a611e84011e93894e4ab37bb11c

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just chiming in here: it’s almost all about the graph. If you have the graph, the content is almost irrelevant. This is why Signal hiding the graph as best they can, using SGX, is incredibly important work. Say what you want about Secure Enclaves, we know of no better way to conceal social graphs. Yes there is still potentially some metadata analysis that can be done at the server to coordinate IP addresses but we kn…

>...we know signal doesn’t keep those logs because of their response to the sealed subpoena ... That doesn't prove that. If Signal was, say, a NSA project they would have to respond to such things in that way to protect the signal intelligence value of the metadata they were collecting for their primary mission. After Crypto AG we know it is a bad idea to trust any particular entity. Something like Signal can only be…

Absolutely. You should trust anything as much as you can verify it and no further.

I submit that there is no better option right now.

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just chiming in here: it’s almost all about the graph. If you have the graph, the content is almost irrelevant. This is why Signal hiding the graph as best they can, using SGX, is incredibly important work. Say what you want about Secure Enclaves, we know of no better way to conceal social graphs. Yes there is still potentially some metadata analysis that can be done at the server to coordinate IP addresses but we kn…

> Say what you want about Secure Enclaves, we know of no better way to conceal social graphs. I'm not following. Secure Enclaves have nothing to do with protecting the social graph of Signal users. They're used to store the contact list (and other things) in the "cloud" in a safe way – things that weren't even shared / stored anywhere by Signal before Secure Value Recovery was introduced.

https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/

This is the relevant blog post.

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#116
post #34

It's very important that we keep Huawei out of our 5G networks! (what if they discovered things like this and told the citizens about it?)

Please stop equating totalitarian regimes with democracies.

Good point. Democracies are horrible because they gave us nazi germany. Or how about we stop with the silly propaganda talking points and deal with the topic at hand?

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#117
post #107
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you looking for more oversight than is expressed in the article? It says the Danes check to make sure what the NSA searches for on that system does not include Danish citizen identifiers.

The very concept that people should have their basic human right to privacy protected or denied based on the happenstance of their location of birth is insanity. Governments that gate human rights on nationality are fundamentally amoral, and should never be trusted to self-regulate.

What's the alternative?

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#118

I love how the politicians presume NSA is safe partner and their danish citizens are not in the data. It does not really help if every other neighbouring country does the same. NSA will get danish info elsewhere. Everyone gets played. It works as long as USA is an trusthworthy ally. They wouldn't dare to abuse the information for private gains... right?

> the politicians presume NSA is safe partner

Do you have any evidence to make this claim?

Or perhaps politicians are the experts at both telling and detecting lies and manipulations?

Maybe they know the risks very well and yet chose their own personal interest e.g. non making enemies of the US...

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#119
post #94

Yep, TOR is not secure. The other thing not mentioned enough is how insecure blockchain is. Both are vulnerable to time-correlation. https://www.wired.com/story/theres-no-good-reason-to-trust-b...

I wish people would emphasize this more. Bitcoin isn't anonymous, and with the legal requirements for reporting transactions, much of what happens on there can be corellated to real-world identities. Far as privacy goes, it's probably a step backwards even from bank accounts and credit cards since there's no warrant needed to access it.

Bitcoin is old and stagnant, the future is full anonymity in the form of zk-snarks, used by millions.

Re: Danish military intelligence uses XKEYSCORE to tap cables in co-op with the NSA

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we can't convince people with their ear to the ground, how does one convince the general public. Convince them of what? Some of us don't believe the NSA are bad actors and and possibly we also believe they're doing their jobs and support them in that.

You're one of the people this [0] comment is talking about. Also, how can you possibly believe that the NSA are not bad actors? Between trying to hobble encryption, spying on everything, and enabling bad individual actions, and having a horrible success rate [1], what is left to defend? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24962802 [1] https://www.newamerica.org/international-security/policy-pap...

NSA's competence or success rate doesn't invalidate the need for such an organization. Individuals part of the organization that behave badly don't either. Other states have organizations like the NSA and in order for the USA to defend itself from them the USA also needs one. We don't question the need for a military because one lieutenant burns down a Vietnamese village, we demand justice and changes, but we continue to support the need for a military. That's my thought around the NSA. I support private companies protecting their customers by utilizing encryption and I support the NSA to do whatever they can to amass all the information they can when private companies fail. Why? Because our enemies are doing the same thing. A moral position that loses doesn't last, and for sure there are some moral positions I would stand by them even if it meant losing, but this one isn't one of them. Not for me anyway.
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