Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 90 posts

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#71

Post by hartror »

mattdeboard wrote: post #69
powertower wrote: post #22

The worst is that as soon as Facebook detects the stink on the internet of this, they will rectify the situation for ArsTechnica, but everyone else will still be screwed. When you are dealing with virtual monopolies that have zero customer support and negative processes (Facebook, Google, etc) getting locked out does not mean that you get go somewhere else, it literally mean getting locked out of an entire aspect of…

I really dislike this high-minded morality drama that seems to crop up on the Internet when Facebook or Google or Apple does something stupid. If losing your Facebook page (or Twitter account or regular call-in segment on your local morning talk show or any other marketing vehicle) would be a serious blow to your online strategy, then Facebook has much too prominent a spot in your online strategy. Whatever happened t…

You go to your customer's preferred method of communication.

If your customers are predominantly Facebook users then that is where you go. Our customers are mostly teens and the best way to reach them and keep them engaged is through Facebook where our response rates are off the charts. Email on the other hand sometimes feels like it is more likely to bounce than to get read. And practically none of them use Twitter.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#72

Post by ericd »

caf wrote: post #64
Hoff wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read through the FB Terms of Service back when you signed up? When I last read through that (and which was admittedly a few years back), the ToS indicated that whatever you uploaded became available to FB in perpetuity, and for whatever purpose FB wanted to make of it. Put another way, if you didn't pay for something, then there's a good change it's you that's what's being sold.

This comment is a complete non-sequitur response to the previous comment. It's completely true, but in no way addresses the points raised. The Terms of Service are irrelevant to the idea of whether "it's the users that make Facebook". Put it this way: how useful would Facebook be if you were the only user?

The grandparent is talking as though Facebook has a legal obligation to do right by its users. This is not true, as far as I can tell. As hammock says, it can do whatever it wants with the stuff published, to the extent that it doesn't do something libelous with it.

Of course, it's not a good PR or long term business strategy to screw with lots of its users, but talking as though it must do things when it really doesn't have to is the issue that the parent is responding to.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#73

Post by mattdeboard »

hartror wrote: post #71
mattdeboard wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike this high-minded morality drama that seems to crop up on the Internet when Facebook or Google or Apple does something stupid. If losing your Facebook page (or Twitter account or regular call-in segment on your local morning talk show or any other marketing vehicle) would be a serious blow to your online strategy, then Facebook has much too prominent a spot in your online strategy. Whatever happened t…

You go to your customer's preferred method of communication. If your customers are predominantly Facebook users then that is where you go. Our customers are mostly teens and the best way to reach them and keep them engaged is through Facebook where our response rates are off the charts. Email on the other hand sometimes feels like it is more likely to bounce than to get read. And practically none of them use Twitter.

>You go to your customer's preferred method of communication

I didn't say not to have a presence on Facebook, did I? The social media/new media/online strategy for a great many companies and publications -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was >50% of the top 1000 companies in America -- consists solely of having a Facebook fan page.

They might have a website where you can buy their actual product. However, if, "Come visit us on Facebook!" is the extent of your online presence strategy, you're exposing your brand and your strategy to huge risks.

Have a Facebook presence. Make it part of your strategy. But don't be an idiot and make it "Our Facebook/Twitter Strategy." You might think that's silly, and no one would do it, but by god there are a LOT of idiots in the world.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#74

Post by hartror »

mattdeboard wrote: post #73
hartror wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You go to your customer's preferred method of communication. If your customers are predominantly Facebook users then that is where you go. Our customers are mostly teens and the best way to reach them and keep them engaged is through Facebook where our response rates are off the charts. Email on the other hand sometimes feels like it is more likely to bounce than to get read. And practically none of them use Twitter.

>You go to your customer's preferred method of communication I didn't say not to have a presence on Facebook, did I? The social media/new media/online strategy for a great many companies and publications -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was >50% of the top 1000 companies in America -- consists solely of having a Facebook fan page. They might have a website where you can buy their actual product. However, if, "…

Sure we still use email, our website/forums and even a tray app. But nothing gets the response Facebook engenders so if we were cut off from that we would take a serious hit, probably not business threatening but certainly it would cut revenues enough that I wouldn't be surprised if jobs were in the firing line (not information I am privy so just a guess).

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#75

Post by mattdeboard »

hartror wrote: post #74
mattdeboard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You go to your customer's preferred method of communication I didn't say not to have a presence on Facebook, did I? The social media/new media/online strategy for a great many companies and publications -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was >50% of the top 1000 companies in America -- consists solely of having a Facebook fan page. They might have a website where you can buy their actual product. However, if, "…

Sure we still use email, our website/forums and even a tray app. But nothing gets the response Facebook engenders so if we were cut off from that we would take a serious hit, probably not business threatening but certainly it would cut revenues enough that I wouldn't be surprised if jobs were in the firing line (not information I am privy so just a guess).

Well, it might be just me, but I think the best place to position your brand the strongest online is your domain. That is where you should put your resources. Relying in such a big way on Facebook that a lot of companies seem to do just seems ludicrous. Especially now. Why would a business EVER want to put their marketing strategy's balls firmly in Facebook's control?

(I'm using the generic "you" here, not specifically you hartror)

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#76

Post by caf »

ericd wrote: post #72
caf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a complete non-sequitur response to the previous comment. It's completely true, but in no way addresses the points raised. The Terms of Service are irrelevant to the idea of whether "it's the users that make Facebook". Put it this way: how useful would Facebook be if you were the only user?

The grandparent is talking as though Facebook has a legal obligation to do right by its users. This is not true, as far as I can tell. As hammock says, it can do whatever it wants with the stuff published, to the extent that it doesn't do something libelous with it. Of course, it's not a good PR or long term business strategy to screw with lots of its users, but talking as though it must do things when it really does…

I'm not sure which comment you're talking about, but falcolas' comment specifically says "...since there is no legal contract..." - the comment is clearly talking about a non-legal "need" for Facebook to treat it's users well. This has nothing to do with ToS.

If someone says Facebook "must" do something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're implying a legal requirement. It is more likely that they're talking about something that, in the opinion of the commenter, is required to stay successful long term - regardless of the legalities.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#77

Post by tambourine_man »

I find it amusing that this may come as a surprise. Facebook's got so big that people think it's a government institution or something.

The outraged tone and arguments of the article imply that the author thinks he has “rights”, hence his fairness demands. This is a privately owned website, they can do what ever the ____ they want with the data that you give them. This quote from the article exemplifies this view:

How dare we post our own content to our own Facebook page

They really think it's their own. I can't decide if that's sad or hilarious.

I'm not an open web fanatic, but such naivety from a tech savvy site is scary. Regular people must think Facebook is a given, like air or tap water. This widespread lack of education is going to get ugly soon.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy young guy, but I can't understand why people not only use, but depend on Facebook.

Look at Hacker News, there is something interesting here everyday. I'm sure there are equally relevant sites in almost every field of knowledge. Yet, I've never seen anything in Facebook deeper than regular gossip or elevator chitchat about the weather: your friend spent last holiday at his beach house. Wow.

And regarding business contacts, C'mon. We've been doing business networks for ages. I've yet to see someone getting loads of money because of whom they met at Facebook.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#79

Post by paulcjeffries »

I'm Paul C. Jeffries, Head of Legal Operations at Facebook, where I work with the team that handles incoming notices of intellectual property infringement. I wanted to provide a little color about what happened in this situation.

As you may have heard, today we investigated a number of recent trademark (intellectual property) takedowns, and as a result of this investigation we restored four Facebook Pages. We apologize for any disruption to those who posted content.

Taking a step back, abuse of DMCA and other intellectual property notice procedures is a challenge for every major Internet service, and we take it seriously. In many cases, when we're put on notice we're obligated to take appropriate action. We have invested significant resources into creating a dedicated team (including me) that uses specialized tools, systems, and technology to review and properly handle these intellectual property notices. This system evaluates a number of factors when deciding how to respond -- and in many cases, we require the reporter to provide additional information before we can take action.

As a result of these efforts, the vast majority of intellectual property notices that we receive are handled without incident. Of course, no system is perfect and we're always striving to improve our practices. Rest assured that the dedicated team who handle incoming complaints from rights holders are equally devoted to protecting the interests of people expressing themselves on Facebook. As part of our ongoing efforts to improve, we will be considering the results of our investigation into this matter as we continue to refine our systems and procedures.

Post reply on HN