Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone • Hacker News Board

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#41

Post by jniedrauer » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

steelframe wrote: post #20

mkl95 wrote: post #10

I worked for a startup that had an internal "story point meter" that would go up as you closed your tickets. The goal was to pressure employees into completing a certain number of story points per week the CEO considered a good number for a productive employee. Needless to say, this didn't work as intended, and the workforce was split between those who didn't care about it (higher ups) and those who maxed up their me…

As a software engineering manager, I put a story-point-based method of task size estimation and team velocity measurement in place about two years ago. A stipulation of this was that at no time would any one developer have their story point velocity assessed. The purpose of this system is to provide the team with a powerful tool that it needs in order to set a realistic timeline on team deliverables, such as a launch…

Have story points been useful to you, even when incentives are aligned? I find that they're often orders of magnitude off, in either direction.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#42

Post by chillacy » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

peruvian wrote: post #39

Zhyl wrote: post #9

This was the topic of a video [0] posted by CGP Grey on the 25th August. Not mainstream, but I think the idea has been popular for a while [1]. >6.4 >A manager went to his programmers and told them: "As regards to your work hours: you are going to have to come in at nine in the morning and leave at five in the afternoon." At this, all of them became angry and several resigned on the spot. >So the manager said: "All r…

So another way to filter out or alienate older employees or those with families.

I wish people stood up for night owls when I had to suffer the sleep schedules of the elderly or 9-5 schedule in public school.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#43

Post by dqv » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

Whenever I hear people propose "radical" ideas about work shifts and weekends, I always wonder how they expect it to work at e.g. nuclear power plants and 911 call centers. Most people, given the opportunity, would opt to take the day off whenever they felt like it and come in and leave work as they please. Creatives seem to propose these ideas as universal, but never give even a passing mention about work that is necessarily shift-based. The handwavy answer is "oh we'll incentivize that" or "oh we'll automate it so they don't have to do shift work!" They should just be honest and say that they want special privileges for work and aren't concerned about putting any further thought into it.

Anyway, this tweet is really someone trying to turn the thought "I don't really like my work schedule"/"Some people don't like their work schedule" into something profound.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#44

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #10

I worked for a startup that had an internal "story point meter" that would go up as you closed your tickets. The goal was to pressure employees into completing a certain number of story points per week the CEO considered a good number for a productive employee. Needless to say, this didn't work as intended, and the workforce was split between those who didn't care about it (higher ups) and those who maxed up their me…

[deleted]

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#45

Post by chillacy » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

dqv wrote: post #43

Whenever I hear people propose "radical" ideas about work shifts and weekends, I always wonder how they expect it to work at e.g. nuclear power plants and 911 call centers. Most people, given the opportunity, would opt to take the day off whenever they felt like it and come in and leave work as they please. Creatives seem to propose these ideas as universal, but never give even a passing mention about work that is ne…

The author says "isn't for everyone", not "is for no one".

Your point about 911 call centers is true, but the principle is just that the work schedule needs to mesh with the job role itself. E.g. restaurants have to be open for meal times, customer service needs to be around when customers are around.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#46

Post by franciscop » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

I commented on this before and I will again. The popular alt schedule shared in a reply (Wed off) is great if your life's purpose is to maximize your work performance in detriment of personal time. That is, if you don't have a work-life balance already. It is not surprising then that people who try to maximize their work come with schedules that are worse for personal time.

Instead, especially in our more privileged profession, you should be pacing yourself so that you are not utterly broken by Saturday. Then you can take a full two-days off and do whatever you want, there are so many more things you can do with a two-day off in a row that you cannot do with single days, from simple organizing dinners with friends to weekend getaways.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#47

Post by ghaff » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #35

maxerickson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been furloughed down to 32 hours a week for 5 months (mostly taking 3 day weekends). It has had a noticeable (downward) impact on tempo, but we aren't necessary looking for ways to make it the permanent way to organize the week either. It would be hard to sell me on taking Wednesday off, but I can see where people with more obligations would get a lot out of an arrangement like that.

I think you get more gain if you lower amount of hours per day rather then skip a day. Skipping a day is more comfortable for people who want free day.

I suspect that if I technically worked 6 hours a day it wouldn't make much difference. I already have a pretty flexible schedule and, like most people, it's not like I'm heads-down 8 hours a day. On the other hand, lop a full day off a week and, while I'd shift some work as I do when I'm traveling, I'd do fewer things.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#48

Post by bobthepanda » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #38

ardit33 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make 1pm to 5pm as mandatory, so both the 9-5 folks and 1pm to 9pm folks have some overlap for synchronization, meetings and such. As for people exploiting it, you should measure relative performance and not but time One of my first startups I worked had a noon-4pm core hours. You had to be in by noon, and should stay until 4pm, the rest was flexible. I thought it worked really well for both early risers and…

> you should measure relative performance This is also easier said than done. How do you measure programmer performance? LOC is obviously not a reasonable metric. Closed tickets isn't either. It takes an experienced manager who understands code to understand what work is actually being done, and managers like that are rare and valuable.

The thing is managers already do this either consciously or subconsciously. So we’re just changing how they apply it.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#49

Post by DenisM » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

On a tangent: I derive significant amount of guilty pleasure by slacking for a whole day mid-week. Much more than I do from a "proper" weekend.

I believe that's because as time rolls we assign minor duties to ourselves for the weekend, and that weekend becomes just another time of work filled with worry and a sense of obligation. An unplanned day off, by contrast, has no duties.

Now if only I could replicate the same sense of freedom on the regular weekend I would be the happiest man alive.

Re: Unpopular opinion: Weekdays/weekend split isn't for everyone

#50

Post by docdeek » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

Jabbles wrote: post #36

docdeek wrote: post #16

Absolutely agree but it would be darn hard to manage with kids. I might be more productive on a Saturday than on a Tuesday, but hard to explain to the kids that you'll miss half the weekend because I wrote better on Saturdays than on Tuesdays.

Well you don't need to optimize for productivity , you can optimize for enjoyment, stress-levels, ability to do admin. And presumably on Tuesday you would have the energy to do something fun with your kids. Also, huge numbers of people have to work at the weekends. From highly-paid doctors to fast-food employees. Presumably their kids understand.

I guess the point is that schools aren't going to adapt to a schedule that isn't Monday to Friday (at least where I live). Spending time with the kids on Tuesday is going to be about 8 hours less time than I could spend with them on a Saturday when they are always free.

You're right that kids understand but it's far from ideal when their schedules are so firmly fixed M-F with weekends free.