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Let the Incarcerated Vote

theatlantic.com

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Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#31

Post by yokaze »

dragonwriter wrote: post #29
yokaze wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather than spend energy arguing about letting incarcerated people vote, it seems more useful to make sure that nobody is being locked up for victimless crimes and taking a harder look at why anyone is being locked up for non-violent crimes. They are orthogonal problems. Solving one doesn't solve the other. And disenfranchisement is creating problems as shown in the article, while it tries to solve a problem, which…

> > Rather than spend energy arguing about letting incarcerated people vote, it seems more useful to make sure that nobody is being locked up for victimless crimes and taking a harder look at why anyone is being locked up for non-violent crimes. > They are orthogonal problems. Solving one doesn't solve the other. I disagree. If incarcerating people weren't an effective method of both denying people you don't like a v…

That's a good point, they are quite related. Certainly not "orthogonal".

Still the reasons for mass-incarceration are multifold and how much the voting rights issue is a motivation for it is anybodies guess. There are also simply economical reasons.

I still think, it is sensible to address both issues. Addressing one will likely help the other, but I have my doubts that it will be as effective as addressing both.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#32

Post by fuj »

mcny wrote: post #28
roenxi wrote: post #9

Not my problem, but I'm torn on my opinion. On the one hand, seems like an interesting idea. On the other, the US is known as being too quick to incarcerate people. Rather than spend energy arguing about letting incarcerated people vote, it seems more useful to make sure that nobody is being locked up for victimless crimes and taking a harder look at why anyone is being locked up for non-violent crimes. It seems pote…

> Some people should not have a voice in society - like raping murderers. But why? If murderers should be disenfranchised then why not jaywalkers? People who leave the shopping carts in the middle of a parking lot? I would like to see people who have car alarms but don't shut them off for over five minutes be disenfranchised as well. Where does this end?

Comparing rapists with jaywalkers... wow

Sound logic, got to improve those trilling skills though, pretty pathetic at the moment

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#33

Post by benlumen »

I’m in the UK where we also don’t allow prisoners to vote, but I’ve always said they should have it for a simple reason - with the way it is, there’s an incentive for any given government to imprison the political opposition. Even if it’s not used, it’s there.

Edit: downvoted already, interesting. I lean centre-right on most things

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#34

Post by esc_colon_q »

geowwy wrote: post #10

This is a distraction. Prison needs to be abolished. Let's concentrate on that instead.

Most people strongly disagree with you. You need to offer an argument, not an assertion, since you're callit for a major and unpopular change.

And if like many of my lefty friends by "abolish" you actually mean something that doesn't even come close to meaning "abolish", you're just causing problems with your abuse of language.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#35

Post by mrmonkeyman »

eznzt wrote: post #6
zeeZ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I find it quite appalling how you can dismiss about 1.4 million people just like that.

I also find it quite appalling how people can commit a crime just like that, but here we are.

Stealing shoes? Beating someone up and taking their car? Bad yeah, but..

Losing your right to vote?

WTF Americans...

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#36

Post by bufferoverflow »

benlumen wrote: post #33

I’m in the UK where we also don’t allow prisoners to vote, but I’ve always said they should have it for a simple reason - with the way it is, there’s an incentive for any given government to imprison the political opposition. Even if it’s not used, it’s there. Edit: downvoted already, interesting. I lean centre-right on most things

That's a weak argument.

1) You'd have to imprison millions of people to make a difference in most elections.

2) If you actually have the power to imprison so many people without consequences, you don't need to do it for the election's sake. Just fake the election results. Works for Putin, Lukashenko, and other dictators. Gulags are a pain to manage, especially in the modern world where information spreads like wildfire.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#37

Post by benlumen »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #36
benlumen wrote: post #33

I’m in the UK where we also don’t allow prisoners to vote, but I’ve always said they should have it for a simple reason - with the way it is, there’s an incentive for any given government to imprison the political opposition. Even if it’s not used, it’s there. Edit: downvoted already, interesting. I lean centre-right on most things

That's a weak argument. 1) You'd have to imprison millions of people to make a difference in most elections. 2) If you actually have the power to imprison so many people without consequences, you don't need to do it for the election's sake. Just fake the election results. Works for Putin, Lukashenko, and other dictators. Gulags are a pain to manage, especially in the modern world where information spreads like wildfi…

I should have articulated it better - i don’t mean literally rounding people up to sway an election. I think it might be something that happens gradually over time with a softer, more subtle effect than that. Say, tougher enforcement in some areas than others.

And how about what’s made illegal in the first place? Could there be an incentive to pass laws that criminalize activity that the other side is more likely to engage in? (See: the war on drugs)

It’s probably naive to think that there are no political consequences at all.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#38

Post by m0zg »

eznzt wrote: post #22
geowwy wrote: post #10

This is a distraction. Prison needs to be abolished. Let's concentrate on that instead.

And what do we do with people who are just too dangerous to keep about?

That part is actually easy. We just send them to geowwy's neighborhood, so he could have the pleasure of getting stabbed or shot in the street for his wallet.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#39

Post by ohgodplsno »

the-dude wrote: post #18
mercer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it might be a stretch, both 88 and 38 are associated with, among other things, of course, white supremacy.

What is 38 about?

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/38

Now, that doesn't guarantee it's being used as a nazi dogwhistle, but adding the 88 to it makes it less likely to be a coincidence.

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