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Let the Incarcerated Vote

theatlantic.com

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Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#11

Post by ebg13 »

eznzt wrote: post #6
zeeZ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I find it quite appalling how you can dismiss about 1.4 million people just like that.

I also find it quite appalling how people can commit a crime just like that, but here we are.

Law and morality aren't the same. Maybe you find it appalling to harm others? But plenty of crimes don't harm others. So how do you feel about the rest?

And if enough incarcerated people and non-incarcerated people collectively believe a thing, what makes the beliefs of the non-incarcerated special given that the beliefs are the same?

By what we can assume is your reasoning based on your dismissal, if two thirds of the entire population believed that a thing should be legal but half of them were incarcerated for doing that very thing, the final third should be able to hold the incarcerated third hostage despite being significantly in the minority on the issue. That's highly irrational.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#12

Post by saithound »

atoav wrote: post #5
abakus wrote: post #2

No, just no.

In Europe allowing incarcerated to vote is normal. It isn't even a political issue. The right to vote is valued differently in different nations of course. In some nations it is literally above everything else, while in others it isn't. This "ranking" of rights reflects the values within the societies. Edit: And to add another commonly used argument: If you don't understand the right to vote as a super-right that can…

In some [1] European countries it is normal. In other European countries it isn't. It is very much a political issue, so much so that many goverments, including that of the UK [2] defied or contravened the ECHR decision on the matter for decades.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/council-of-...

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#14

Post by Laremere »

roenxi wrote: post #9

Not my problem, but I'm torn on my opinion. On the one hand, seems like an interesting idea. On the other, the US is known as being too quick to incarcerate people. Rather than spend energy arguing about letting incarcerated people vote, it seems more useful to make sure that nobody is being locked up for victimless crimes and taking a harder look at why anyone is being locked up for non-violent crimes. It seems pote…

To flip it around: Allowing incarcerated people to vote removes any political incentive to convict supporters of political opponents. This would allow reforms about incarceration to be less politically divisive, and more focused on what's good for society.

I would go further, and say that their voices should be represented, as they as likely people who society has failed, before they failed society.

I support making voting a right to all citizens, removing any games around preventing others to vote, and ensuring everyone has a voice. Yes, even the worst of the worst, as the harm in letting them have their meager affect on the voting results is far less than those caused politicians choosing who their electorate is.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#15

Post by mercer »

s9w wrote: post #13
skavi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you commenting with multiple very new accounts? https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=TakeMeTo38

What points to them being the same person?

While it might be a stretch, both 88 and 38 are associated with, among other things, of course, white supremacy.

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#19

Post by atoav »

saithound wrote: post #12
atoav wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe allowing incarcerated to vote is normal. It isn't even a political issue. The right to vote is valued differently in different nations of course. In some nations it is literally above everything else, while in others it isn't. This "ranking" of rights reflects the values within the societies. Edit: And to add another commonly used argument: If you don't understand the right to vote as a super-right that can…

In some [1] European countries it is normal. In other European countries it isn't. It is very much a political issue, so much so that many goverments, including that of the UK [2] defied or contravened the ECHR decision on the matter for decades. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/council-of-...

You are right, I didn't mean this to be an exhaustive statement. The UK is culturally closer to the US in certain ways than to it's continental neighbours (especially when it comes to their voting system).

Re: Let the Incarcerated Vote

#20

Post by iso947 »

the-dude wrote: post #16
geowwy wrote: post #10

This is a distraction. Prison needs to be abolished. Let's concentrate on that instead.

Do you have a handful of examples where this worked well?

Not abolished entirely, but every western country has a better prison system than US

Here’s a handful of examples of reducing prison intake

https://www.mic.com/articles/109138/sweden-has-done-for-its-...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/youth-offenders_balancing-punis...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/12/why-are-there-...

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