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Joel Spolsky: Lunch

joelonsoftware.com

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Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#161

Post by spolsky »

To those who thought that team lunch is "mandatory," you misread the article. It's not mandatory. You can go out instead. You can go to the gym instead. You can hide in your office and "free your mind" instead. You can bring your friends or family to our lunch. You can go out instead. You can take a picnic. You can come in after lunch and work late instead of working early.

I don't even think there's social pressure to go to lunch. People do because they enjoy it. Sorry if this wasn't clear from the article. It's not a weird cult where I'm forcing introverts into cult-like hanging out with people that they hate or already spend too much time with. That would be inconsistent with our goal of making a humane, friendly, and fun workplace, which was the point of the article.

We very rarely talk about work at lunch. I've never met anyone who visited us for lunch and thought that it was weird. I have met some pretty anti-social people in my time and some of them work for us and somehow they don't seem to mind sitting at the table during lunch and listening to everyone else enjoying the conversations.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#162

Post by rodh257 »

blhack wrote: post #42

Lunch is also a really important part of my job. I run the IT department for a fairly small company (~200 employees). Going to lunch with people affords me the opportunity to hear them complain about their job. Sometimes, although they might not realize, their complaints are things that I can fix for them. They're my best source of ideas for projects. "GUH! I keep asking $so_and_so for new $office_supply, but I guess…

While the ideas for projects is a good one, do you ever get sick of hearing peoples complaints in social situations? Nothing is more annoying than when you are having a few Friday beers and all people want to do is tell you how crap their computer is expecting you to promise them a new one by Monday.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#163

Post by metachris »

spolsky wrote: post #161

To those who thought that team lunch is "mandatory," you misread the article. It's not mandatory. You can go out instead. You can go to the gym instead. You can hide in your office and "free your mind" instead. You can bring your friends or family to our lunch. You can go out instead. You can take a picnic. You can come in after lunch and work late instead of working early. I don't even think there's social pressure…

That’s why when new people start work at the company, they’re not allowed to sit off by themselves in a corner.

Sounds like pretty strong social pressure to me.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#164

Post by rubergly »

DavidMcLaughlin wrote: post #120

Cause/effect. I'm sure anyone who has ever worked in a team where things weren't going so well has tried the whole "let's go to lunch together!" thing but it's never a solution. Good teams tend to eat lunch together = true. Good teams are good because they eat lunch together = false. A good team evolves from a consistent and careful approach to hiring and organisation and when a manager groups people together based o…

A bad team isn't going to be made good because of lunch. But I think the point of the article is that it can make a good team (full of very skilled people who are unenthused about their work experience) into a great time (full of very skilled people who enjoy spending time with each other much more). And sure, a group that constantly bickers isn't going to instantly transform because of spending time together, but it could build enough of a community to bring together groups that get along fine but aren't that friendly.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#165

Post by mattmanser »

metachris wrote: post #163
spolsky wrote: post #161

To those who thought that team lunch is "mandatory," you misread the article. It's not mandatory. You can go out instead. You can go to the gym instead. You can hide in your office and "free your mind" instead. You can bring your friends or family to our lunch. You can go out instead. You can take a picnic. You can come in after lunch and work late instead of working early. I don't even think there's social pressure…

That’s why when new people start work at the company, they’re not allowed to sit off by themselves in a corner. Sounds like pretty strong social pressure to me.

Trouble with words on a page is that you can't convey all that other stuff. When I read that I read it as jokey and also a camaraderie thing on the first day.

It sounded good to me.

Other people are reading it as a dictat. It sounded bad to them.

But Joel just explained what he meant explicitly, you can't keep on challenging him after that.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#166

Post by tt »

Shameless plug for my own startup: for any San Francisco based company, Munchery is offering $50 off for any lunch or dinner order over $200.

We have multiple professional chefs who serve the entire San Francisco, cooking only sustainable, locally grown ingredients. Please ping me if you want to chat first.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#167

Post by mwbiz »

edw519 wrote: post #18

I have always hated this and probably always will. I have rarely eaten lunch with my work mates. Just a few reasons why: 1. I don't want to talk about work at lunch. 2. I want to get out of the office and get some fresh air. 3. I often want to get away from the very people that Joel suggests spending time with on my break. 4. I'm a "food outlier". I hate pizza, deli, and fast food. I won't eat it away from work. Why…

Absolutely agree with you. I'm not sure why this post got 200+ points. Enforced Association is perfect description and it's something that every company must be aware of. I try to get our team together once a month to go out for lunch but that's where it stops. Everyone likes each other and they spend time together at lunch when they want to, not when they're forced to.

For me lunch is a time to stop thinking about work and get out of the office.

If people don't like sitting together at lunch, all you do is force them to think about creative things to say rather than letting them rest their mind and come back to work more productive after lunch.

It's another one of those time where I don't agree with Joel.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#168

Post by andrewflnr »

telemachos wrote: post #149
nadam wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am introverted an geek, but this: "I'd rather shoot myself than hear anything about their children." is borderline anti-social for my taste. Or maybe he just really don't like his coworkers for some reason.

Calling it 'borderline' is too polite. I couldn't decide if (1) he was deliberately overdoing it (revealing the satire?), (2) deeply hated children in general or (3) found his co-workers' children especially hateful or what. Actually the whole of (7) is way over the border of anti-social: If my work mates are talking about something other than work, I'm probably not interested. I'd rather chew razor blades than talk…

Number one, I think. And I suspect that it's less that he started out hating that stuff than that he has just heard so much of it that he's sick of it.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#169

Post by bmccormack »

spolsky wrote: post #161

To those who thought that team lunch is "mandatory," you misread the article. It's not mandatory. You can go out instead. You can go to the gym instead. You can hide in your office and "free your mind" instead. You can bring your friends or family to our lunch. You can go out instead. You can take a picnic. You can come in after lunch and work late instead of working early. I don't even think there's social pressure…

One of the guys on our support team had his sister come to lunch at Fog Creek during their visit to NYC. Even amidst all the wonderful things they did in New York, she said that coming in for lunch and seeing Fog Creek was the highlight of her trip. It wasn't that the incredible food (though it was), but rather it was witnessing the comradery the exists at meals and the overall wonderfulness of the workplace. When my colleague shared her story with us, it made us realize that we oftentimes take for granted how rare it is to work in such a great environment.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#170

Post by vacri »

InfinityX0 wrote: post #28
edw519 wrote: post #18

I have always hated this and probably always will. I have rarely eaten lunch with my work mates. Just a few reasons why: 1. I don't want to talk about work at lunch. 2. I want to get out of the office and get some fresh air. 3. I often want to get away from the very people that Joel suggests spending time with on my break. 4. I'm a "food outlier". I hate pizza, deli, and fast food. I won't eat it away from work. Why…

Synopsis: You hate your job, not your lunch. Quit your job and get a job that you love, and you'll inevitably end up loving the lunch you currently hate.

Nonsense. I like my job, but I still prefer to get out of the building at lunch time.
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