Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note that Matt Walker has fallen from grace, at least on HN. His book "Why we sleep" used to be widely recommended around here, but there appear to be very serious scientific shortcomings affecting some of the information he presents. See e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21546850 That is not to say he's wrong on every count, but take what he says with a huge grain of "might have been invented/fudged and then…
You might be interested in a counterpoint from someone who (claims to) study sleep: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/dwtr0m/matt...
Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
231–240 of 282 posts
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. OP's is more an argument against time zones than Daylight Saving Time. Honestly though, this should only be a problem for the small subset of embedded software without access to the Internet. If major OSes time zone databases are not able to be updated independently of the rest of the OS, that's kind of on them. We know time zone boundaries have been changing arbitrarily for decades, so shouldn't this be a sol…
Not against zones; I was hoping to shine a light on all the complexity around the TZDB, which is a mapping of zones to switchover times. Eg, $ zdump -v US/Eastern | grep 2020 US/Eastern Sun Mar 8 06:59:59 2020 UT = Sun Mar 8 01:59:59 2020 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000 US/Eastern Sun Mar 8 07:00:00 2020 UT = Sun Mar 8 03:00:00 2020 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400 US/Eastern Sun Nov 1 05:59:59 2020 UT = Sun Nov 1 01:59:59 2020 E…
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was done to save electricity. More direct sun, less light and heating. Historically in France the saving was equivalent to the whole consumption of the city of Paris over the day (maybe 10-20% of the whole country). It seems people don't care about energy anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What's the problem to go an hour earlier to work during the summer? It's not like working hours are regulated by law.
2) You don't live in a vacuum. Most people can't change their time by themselves because they depend on the rest of the world.
Maybe you take a train/bus at 7 to get to work at 8. There might not be a train at 6.
Maybe you have to drop your kids at school. The school is not taking your kid one hour back or forth as you wish.
Maybe you work in a factory/office that's opening and closing at some point, you can't work outside of these hours. You depend on coworkers who do other tasks, you may not be able to work by yourself.
That's the reality for most workers, outside of developers.
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#234This seeems silly. "Noon" is a made-up thing, there is nothing in your body that "knows" it's supposed to be when the sun is right over head -- which by the way will be an hour off anyway from the eastern to the western edge of a time zone. There is nothing in your body that says you have to start "work" at 9am.
In the winter, in most of the USA, certainly the northernmost half, you are getting not enough light in the morning AND zero light 'at night' either way -- there are only so many hours of light to go around no matter where you put the clock. In the summer, at the same locations, you're getting plenty of light in both morning and night.
Having grown up in Detroit area (western edge of timezone) and then lived in Chicago (eastern edge of next timezone over), that makes as much of a difference as DST does, does it mean that people in one of those places "things are just off-kilter" regardless of DST? Which one? Or both? If this guy thinks noon with sun directly overhead is so important, he should presumably be advocating for many more timezones, perhaps with 20 minute offsets? But that still wont' actually change "how much light" we get, the sun and the earth's physical relationship that effects how much light is in a given day at a given location and date doesn't care what the clock says.
> I personally am an advocate for permanent standard. The reason I am is because I look at light as really important for our well-being, our mood and our sleep. Getting enough light, especially in the winter, is critical.
I have lived in several places in the USA, in every one I both wake up and go to sleep in darkness in winter. So I am getting all the light there is to get, either way. No DST change would change that, unless you change it so it is getting light before I wake up or after I go to sleep! Now, how much light I can get when I'm not stuck inside during work hours can change -- but it's permanent DST that would maximize the light available when both awake and not during standard business hours, which is exactly why people like it, because they want to get more light when not at work.
There's lots to say about DST, but this professor seems to have some odd theories about the "natural" state of the completely socially constructed clock time.
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#235Social issues aside, the software perspective of keeping up with DST is very costly. Every time any government entity anywhere on Earth changes its mind about what zone they're in and when, the IANA needs to reissue the TZDB. Then every OS and platform vendor needs to patch up to a new TZDB. Just for laughs, Java seems to have its own TZDB so in general your OS and application layer might disagree about zones. This i…
> Just for laughs, Java seems to have its own TZDB so in general your OS and application layer might disagree about zones. Java also ships their own SSL trust store instead of using the system one. Why, just why?! Every system capable of running Java also has its own trust store...
There's also a consistency issue --- write once, run everywhere doesn't work if you need to resign your webstart program based on the OS you're running on.
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Longitude, but yes.
No. I actually did mean latitude because that affects the length of the day at different times of the year. On the equator, there's not much point. Presumably, you're in a timezone that makes general sense relative to typical work patterns so that the sun is up during your awake time. Conversely, live in northern Alaska and you probably have almost too much sun in the summer so no need to optimize and it's dark enoug…
It has been getting dark at 5, tomorrow it will be dark by 4.
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I want it closer to 1 than to 12. It’d be weird for 1 PM to be less directly overhead of a sun than 11:30 AM. // Pure opinion, formed living in southern U.S., northern Europe, and equatorial Africa. But ... I could get over it.
As someone who grew up in a permanent DST (true noon closer to 13:30 on average) north of 60° I can tell you that you probably wouldn’t want to be a teenager forced to wake up 3-4 hours before sunrise in large part of the winter. Health experts from said country don’t want that either for the general population and have advised the government to move to a permanent standard time instead, an advice which the governmen…
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#238Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Just for laughs, Java seems to have its own TZDB so in general your OS and application layer might disagree about zones. Java also ships their own SSL trust store instead of using the system one. Why, just why?! Every system capable of running Java also has its own trust store...
Even if that is true now, it certainly wasn't always true. When did Java add its trust store, and when did Windows and Debian and Solaris? There's also a consistency issue --- write once, run everywhere doesn't work if you need to resign your webstart program based on the OS you're running on.
Re: Governments Worldwide Consider Ditching Daylight Saving Time
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a grain farmer I cannot imagine what kind of farmer is worried about the wall clock. For us, the only thing that determines if we work or not is the weather. Maybe the only advantage I have noticed is that the parts dealership is open an hour later if we have a breakdown. However, we're also not yet done for the year and won't be before we go back to standard time, so that falls apart for our late season work anyw…
>> Only ~2% of the population are farmers, so even if they did all object the 98% wouldn't care and move forward anyway. In Canada I think it's about 3% but they are a Very vocal political group and punch beyond their absolute numbers.