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Goodbye, Native Apps

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11–20 of 231 posts

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#11

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

To be fair, JetBrains runs on the JVM which arguably has the same problems.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#12
post #9

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

Nope is a very quite good example, because one can compare it to Emacs, vim, Sublime Text loaded with a similar set of plugins. And it isn't an IDE, rather a programmer's text editor.

For decades people complained that Emacs was huge, bloated, etc. Now there are bigger web pages

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#13

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

Most of the core functionality of VSCode is powered by native extensions written in C++.

It's essentially only using HTML and JS as the UI engine.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#14

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

To be fair, JetBrains runs on the JVM which arguably has the same problems.

I wonder if forcing IntelliJ to run with ZGC would help since it releases unused memory back to the OS after some time.

I did this with the Eclipse Language server and my memory usage cut in half on the same project.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#15
post #8

I have Lazarus up and running... it's currently taking 32 Megabytes of RAM. It compiles in the blink of an eye, has one of the best possible 2 way GUI builders in the open source world, and I can reach back 30 years into the libraries I wrote in the days of Turbo Pascal 7/MS-DOS and pretty much use them intact. It amazes me how many people went with the .NET bloatware and all that follows it. Of course, 95% of progra…

You have to thank Borland's management for that. Delphi and C++ Builder are still around, but now only some lucky enterprise employees get to play with them. .NET Native and C++/CX were finally shaping up to be Microsoft's proper version of what .NET and Visual C++ should have been all along. However they are the most recent victims of the whole Reunion reboot, .NET Native now has uncertain future, while C++/CX got r…

At least there is a free Community Edition now. It is one release behind (so doesn't have the latest goodness, eg the LSP server for code completion), but it does let you build apps for non-commercial use or pre-income startups for free, using Delphi/C++, the VCL, etc. Ie, if you want to encourage people to use tools like Delphi, it is much more open to indie devs than it used to be.

Link: https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/starter

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#16
post #8

I have Lazarus up and running... it's currently taking 32 Megabytes of RAM. It compiles in the blink of an eye, has one of the best possible 2 way GUI builders in the open source world, and I can reach back 30 years into the libraries I wrote in the days of Turbo Pascal 7/MS-DOS and pretty much use them intact. It amazes me how many people went with the .NET bloatware and all that follows it. Of course, 95% of progra…

You have to thank Borland's management for that. Delphi and C++ Builder are still around, but now only some lucky enterprise employees get to play with them. .NET Native and C++/CX were finally shaping up to be Microsoft's proper version of what .NET and Visual C++ should have been all along. However they are the most recent victims of the whole Reunion reboot, .NET Native now has uncertain future, while C++/CX got r…

> always late providing bindings to Microsoft SDKs

I remember Delphi adding many Windows features before Visual Studio. Windows Vista Aero support, Support for building native apps for the Microsoft Store, etc.

Delphi never shipped with bindings for 100% of the APIs, but the beauty of Delphi was I could create my own bindings with only a little code from Delphi, so it wasn't a roadblock. That is the huge difference between Delphi and non-native development tools: You aren't held back by lack of libraries or API bindings.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#17
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope is a very quite good example, because one can compare it to Emacs, vim, Sublime Text loaded with a similar set of plugins. And it isn't an IDE, rather a programmer's text editor.

For decades people complained that Emacs was huge, bloated, etc. Now there are bigger web pages

Except I don't need an application in 2020 hardware to replicate my Emacs experience in 1995 hardware, with hardly any improvement worth mentioning.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#18

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

Visual Studio -- itself a fully featured IDE, even back in the early 2000s -- used to run on machines with less than 1 GiB of RAM.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to thank Borland's management for that. Delphi and C++ Builder are still around, but now only some lucky enterprise employees get to play with them. .NET Native and C++/CX were finally shaping up to be Microsoft's proper version of what .NET and Visual C++ should have been all along. However they are the most recent victims of the whole Reunion reboot, .NET Native now has uncertain future, while C++/CX got r…

> always late providing bindings to Microsoft SDKs I remember Delphi adding many Windows features before Visual Studio. Windows Vista Aero support, Support for building native apps for the Microsoft Store, etc. Delphi never shipped with bindings for 100% of the APIs, but the beauty of Delphi was I could create my own bindings with only a little code from Delphi, so it wasn't a roadblock. That is the huge difference b…

Delphi never had proper support for Metro, initially they faked it with VCL styles.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9653260/resources-for-na...

Also how come Embarcadero supports Windows features before Microsoft does?

I am a big Object Pascal/C++ Buider fan, but also acknowledge the reality of their actual support.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#20
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to thank Borland's management for that. Delphi and C++ Builder are still around, but now only some lucky enterprise employees get to play with them. .NET Native and C++/CX were finally shaping up to be Microsoft's proper version of what .NET and Visual C++ should have been all along. However they are the most recent victims of the whole Reunion reboot, .NET Native now has uncertain future, while C++/CX got r…

At least there is a free Community Edition now. It is one release behind (so doesn't have the latest goodness, eg the LSP server for code completion), but it does let you build apps for non-commercial use or pre-income startups for free, using Delphi/C++, the VCL, etc. Ie, if you want to encourage people to use tools like Delphi, it is much more open to indie devs than it used to be. Link: https://www.embarcadero.com…

I am fully aware of it, but the damage has been done and very few will give it a second look, which is quite a produvity loss, but so is the circle of "innovation".
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