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Jailbreaking Used Teslas

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Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#51

Post by xnyan »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
refurb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But isn't that every company that has every sold a product? I mean, they aren't giving it away.

There is a belief running around that Tesla should act like a charity instead of a business while trying to claw its way up to a volume automaker. Software sales are high margin compared to physical auto sales. Tesla is free to do whatever is supported by contract law as it relates to software licensing, including stripping licenses off vehicles when transfers (like trade ins) done through Tesla (versus a private tra…

>There is a belief running around that Tesla should act like a charity

There is a belief that when you buy a car, features you paid for should not disappear for the sole purpose of ripping off customers. I don't accept that shit, and will never buy from companies with scammy practices like this

>Tesla

I wish it was just tesla. BMW does this too, and I'm sure there are other cars I will never buy for this reason. I don't really care, I have other choices.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#52

Post by [deleted] »

kadoban wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything in my purchase agreement that indicates you own it or can resell your Autopilot license. Agree the messaging could be improved.

Then they're selling features for tens of thousands of dollars and what are you buying? Do even they know? Sounds like they're deciding retroactively case-by-case what the original purchase meant.

[deleted]

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#53

Post by olivermarks »

Jochim wrote: post #36
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a belief running around that Tesla should act like a charity instead of a business while trying to claw its way up to a volume automaker. Software sales are high margin compared to physical auto sales. Tesla is free to do whatever is supported by contract law as it relates to software licensing, including stripping licenses off vehicles when transfers (like trade ins) done through Tesla (versus a private tra…

I don't think this is specific to Tesla at all. I think it's more that people are waking up to the fact that they no longer own the things they buy. We've seen the same discussions take place recently around ebook and music libraries disappearing or being non-transferable. Personally I believe that the current licensing situation may be good for company profits, but presents a net negative for society. As a result I'…

Hopefully sooner or later there will be a consumer lawsuit with teeth contesting rentier corporate product lifecycle deaths/EOL feature or usability withdrawal.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#54

Post by rndgermandude »

refurb wrote: post #26
malka wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the justification of Telsa' [...] "fuck you, give us money".

Sure. But isn't that every company that has every sold a product? I mean, they aren't giving it away.

No, it isn't.

There is a lot of shady tricks a lot of companies do (but not all of them), like planned obsolesce, but disabling features of a product retroactively and demanding you pay again to re-enable those features is not a common occurrence and even worse in my opinion.

> I mean, they aren't giving it away.

Tesla wants to get paid for the same thing more than once. If they made sure the customer knows from the get go that some of their features are really subscriptions to a service and not ownership, then OK, but that's not what they are doing.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#55

Post by busterarm »

alextheparrot wrote: post #47
marcinzm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, if you buy a non-salvage used car from another individual then the package follows the car. If you buy a salvage car then the package does not follow it as the car is officially junk (it also loses warranty, etc). If you buy a used car from Tesla they will remove the package before sale. There's one case where Tesla apparently messed up and didn't remove the package from a car they re-sold until a…

A salvage title doesn't necessarily mean the car is junk, though. The fact that you can revive a salvage title clearly shows this. A lot of the cars my family has driven were revived by my father, it is economical and more sustainable in my opinion. I personally don't support any attempts by auto makers to make cars more disposable.

I'm keeping a 33 year old vehicle alive and it's still a joy to drive.

My other car is newer but still with low mileage and in excellent condition.

It's not really that hard, but so much has been done deliberately to make it more difficult. I'm finding older vehicles more and more desirable than newer ones.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#56

Post by judge2020 »

KMnO4 wrote: post #5

Maybe Tesla should link these features to a user's account, not the vehicle. If I sell my iPhone, I'm not selling the apps that I have installed on it. A side effect of this approach is that you could get a new Tesla and log in to activate the features you already paid for. If you crash your Model 3 and insurance buys you a new one, should you have to pay for Autopilot again? That said, that approach may piss off peo…

Regarding your scenario, that wouldn’t happen unless you were as unfortunate as the only person (that we know of) that had their FSD removed after a private sell due to Tesla’s own mistake when selling the car[0]. Otherwise, FSD transfers with the car to the new owner unless you sell it to Tesla (who pays you for the value of FSD) and then maybe decides to remove FSD to sell it at non-FSD price to increase flow of pre-owned inventory.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24930269

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#57

Post by octoberfranklin »

marcinzm wrote: post #49
rndgermandude wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read in the past that Tesla does this also to normal used cars that weren't totaled and salvaged. Either way, you paid for it, and even it it's technically "totaled" it's still fucking yours. When Tesla disables functionality remotely, they don't say it's because the warranty ran out or because it's unsafe now, they say they are happy to re-enable it for fresh money. That's why I wouldn't buy a Tesla (or any car of…

>Either way, you paid for it, and even it it's technically "totaled" it's still fucking yours. Technically, the insurance company probably owns it as they paid you for it after declaring it totaled.

... and he bought it from the insurance company at the vehicle auction.

That's what insurance companies do when they total a vehicle: they buy it from the insured and sell it to somebody else at an auction.

A sale is a sale.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#58

Post by judge2020 »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #21
crazygringo wrote: post #12

None of this adds up -- there must be details missing. First, if a dealer advertises a car with a feature and the car is missing that feature, then you have recourse -- with the dealer. Second, how does Tesla even know that a car has changed owners? What triggered Tesla disabling the feature at this time for this car? I mean look, if you want to sell your Tesla back to an official Tesla dealer and they have an agreem…

So the story is that the dealer had it enabled for demos and included it in the sale info but didn't actually pay for the actual customer to have the product.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24930269

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#59

Post by octoberfranklin »

encom wrote: post #43
KMnO4 wrote: post #5

Maybe Tesla should link these features to a user's account, not the vehicle. If I sell my iPhone, I'm not selling the apps that I have installed on it. A side effect of this approach is that you could get a new Tesla and log in to activate the features you already paid for. If you crash your Model 3 and insurance buys you a new one, should you have to pay for Autopilot again? That said, that approach may piss off peo…

The day I need an account to use my car, is the day I stop driving.

Seriously.

This Serfdom As A Service crap has got to stop.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#60

Post by ydlr »

How long until Tesla (or any manufacturer) remotely disables the ignition on all used cars until the new owner pays them to turn it back on.

Its only fair. After all, the new owner just bought a hunk of metal from the previous owner. They still need to purchase a license for features like starting the car.

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