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Sean Connery has died

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sean Connery has died

#81
post #60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, fortunetaly the movie industry was not a reflection of society. I mean, it's not like any of our parents or grandparents approved of any of this, right?

I mean, they did. That's the implicit critique; it's a relic of a darker time at least in societies that try a bit better today to treat people as peers.

So the people we love get away with an implied critique (nudge nudge wink wink), but we hurl stones at anyone famous?

Changing makes us better. Virtue signaling does not. Assuming we're monotonously moving towards tolerance and treating people better is also extremely arrogant. The comments to this post demonstrates that with great clarity. Sean Connery isn't even cold and already people line up to piss on his grave.

Next time someone in your family dies, are you going to list their moral shortcomings? The "but" right after listing their accomplishments and good sides? "BUT...he didn't like Asian people, spoke ill of jews and objectified women and stared at Mrs Jenkins daughers tits whenever he could. He ate red meat and belonged to a religion that terrorized much of the world for a thousand years".

Of course not.

But then again, Sean Connery isn't a person to any of us. He is just a symbol of something it is okay to hate. So pissing on his grave is somehow permissible.

What annoys me isn't that people get upset about his views. What upsets me is that people have the absolutely disgusting idea that pissing on his grave makes them better. It doesn't. It just means they are a different kind of asshole.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#82
post #81
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they did. That's the implicit critique; it's a relic of a darker time at least in societies that try a bit better today to treat people as peers.

So the people we love get away with an implied critique (nudge nudge wink wink), but we hurl stones at anyone famous? Changing makes us better. Virtue signaling does not. Assuming we're monotonously moving towards tolerance and treating people better is also extremely arrogant. The comments to this post demonstrates that with great clarity. Sean Connery isn't even cold and already people line up to piss on his grave.…

Regular people tacitly endorsing misogyny is awful and should be confronted, not sugarcoated.

But that is in no way remotely comparable to a huge worldwide movie star openly endorsing spousal abuse on a major television news program and never retracting it or apologizing.

Obviously we should criticize that extreme of an act far far more than tacit sexism passively accepted by eg an out of touch grandparent or something. You are trying to equate the two but they are not similar at all.

There’s no logical requirement for people to apply this criticism uniformly eg to every racist extended family member in order to be unhypocritical when leveling the criticism against a big media figure.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#84
I was first introduced to him as Indiana Jone's dad, and I loved him in the screenplay of the Hunt of the Red October. Will miss you Sean Connnery!

They say imitation and parody are the sincerest forms of flattery, in his honor here is one of the many great SNL Celebrity Jeopardy skits with Darrell Hammond playing Sean Connery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVpt3erH7ms

Re: Sean Connery has died

#85
post #61
post #23

Love his stage presence, but do check out his interview with Barbara Walters. He had some seriously crazy views on how to treat women. https://youtu.be/oo0d1zTAFKA

A guy born in 1930 has some outdated views about something. Why do you even feel the need to mention it? Does it makes you feel better with yourself?

Slapping women around is a bit more than "outdated". That's never been acceptable.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#86
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any living person can hold a reprehensible point of view, and as much as I may disagree with it, I really can't stand this attitude of writing people off because of a flawed perspective. That doesn't mean I support spousal abuse by association, it means I recognise he has a shitty point of view amongst all of his other flaws, as well as his qualities. There isn't a single person in history that can meet this standard…

What a ludicrous point of view. The world has a lot of good people in it. There is do defensible reason for celebrating unapologetic bad people. Honest mistakes, sure. Character flaws, ok. Blatant endorsement of spousal abuse on a major news program with no retraction or apology ever? Get real.

I find it more perplexing that we pre-occupy ourselves with splitting the people of the world into those who are good and those who are bad. And then making sure the bad group can't ever make its way back into the good one.

Rarely, if ever, is it so clear cut. And if anything, it's quite a juvenile (and pervasively Western) value system.

I find it particularly exhausting and the world is as it is because there isn't enough compassion going around to even consider how we might approach our problems with kinder, less vengeful, hearts.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#88
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a ludicrous point of view. The world has a lot of good people in it. There is do defensible reason for celebrating unapologetic bad people. Honest mistakes, sure. Character flaws, ok. Blatant endorsement of spousal abuse on a major news program with no retraction or apology ever? Get real.

I find it more perplexing that we pre-occupy ourselves with splitting the people of the world into those who are good and those who are bad. And then making sure the bad group can't ever make its way back into the good one. Rarely, if ever, is it so clear cut. And if anything, it's quite a juvenile (and pervasively Western) value system. I find it particularly exhausting and the world is as it is because there isn't…

What a very weird take on my comments. We didn’t make Sean Connery identify as “bad” - he did that, and did so unremorsefully and unapologetically. He didn’t want to come back to the “good” side.

I find it most perplexing of all that you would want to do mental gymnastics to defend someone like that or minimize the highlighting of genuine harm that person did by trying to disingenuously act like it’s more nuanced than some moralistic sense of right or wrong.

Sometimes it really, really isn’t. Sometimes a person goes on TV sloganeering in favor of spousal abuse, inflaming who knows how many actual abusers out there to believe it’s ok & feel emboldened to keep doing it - real material harm. Sometimes that really, really is only bad, and by never retracting or apologizing, that person doesn’t leave reasonable people any choice but to see that this extreme harmful behavior outweighs pretty much everything else.

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