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Joel Spolsky: Lunch

joelonsoftware.com

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Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#121

Post by frossie »

r00fus wrote: post #89
impendia wrote: post #61

It seems there's an obvious middle ground which doesn't seem to have been mentioned by Joel or anyone else. Being compelled to have lunch with colleagues every day sucks. Sometimes you are feeling cranky, want some fresh air, need to run errands, or have a hot date. Not having the opportunity to lunch with colleagues also sucks. It provides a great opportunity for employees to get to know each other, make friends, an…

One compromise is like one of my previous teams did: One day of the week is team lunch day (and a longer lunch at that). This isn't so quotidien, but still has a bonding effect, diffusing group tensions while satisfying the need for self-time. I think daily mandatory would be weird, but I'd be up for 1-2 days a week where the team meets over food.

One day of the week is team lunch day (and a longer lunch at that)

There is nothing better than a 2-hour team lunch in a park, on nice sunny day. You don't need to do it every day, or even every week, but it has many of the advantages without robbing people of their personal time (which is what lunch break is meant to be).

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#123

Post by cpeterso »

mikegreenspan wrote: post #112

What is the best way to meet new people during lunch at a company cafeteria? This summer, I visited a friend at Google and stayed for lunch (the food is incredible, better than most five-star restaurants btw). That day I noticed the same problem this article highlights. Either groups are meeting during lunch, or the remaining "loners" are reading the latest tech news on their computers and appear completely unapproac…

I'm in a similar situation. I will soon working from a satellite office. Few to none of my new office mates will actually work on my team. I won't receive "welcome to the team" introductions and none of my office mates will have shared work topics to discuss.

Some Google cafeterias have tables labeled for people interested in meeting new people. Lunch can be easier when you know that anyone sitting at those tables is open to new people joining their conversations.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#124

Post by thenduks »

Unfortunately, eating lunch with a group of people every day tends to get very expensive. You either need to be working at a big company with a cafeteria (pass) or for a fancy place like FogCreek, otherwise it's $10-20/day to eat out all the time. Besides, I like to swing home and hang out with the cats sometimes, or work on a side project at my desk, or whatever.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#125

Post by dwc »

At my first real programming job we (developers) went out to lunch together every day. We went out to restaurants, not fast food. Lunch often took 1.5 hours and sometimes 2 hours. Our boss came with us. We were a small company, so there were only four of five of us, usually.

Sometimes we talked about work, and sometimes not. When we did, we often discussed higher level stuff rather than quotidian matters. We had our boss there, so anything we decided at lunch was ready to go ahead with.

Back at the office we almost never had to have meetings, because we didn't need them. This alone is pure gold.

Outside of work some of us were actively friends, and others not. But this really didn't change lunch. Nobody was forced to go to lunch, and there was no unwritten rule that non-lunchers were outsiders. It's that lunch was pleasurable, relaxing, with good food, and we naturally talked about what we had in common.

Since that time it's never quite reached that level, but I've come close occasionally. If you've never experienced it I imagine that it might be hard to grasp how nice it can be.

I think some of what I've said above is inline with what Joel is talking about, but it's a slightly different take. Make of it what you will.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#126

Post by k7d »

justin wrote: post #103

Interesting that there is so much anti-company lunch sentiment on HN. At Justin.tv we serve lunch (and dinner!) every week day. Originally, when we were much smaller, it started as a time saving measure (it was a lot quicker to get back to work than if everyone went out). Now, I see it as much more about giving everyone a chance to hang out and eat, and as a cost benefit to employees. If you don't want to eat at the…

Indeed, I'm equally surprised. At my last startup we also had a voluntary group lunch. I think it was quite critical to maintain a good spirit during rapid ups and downs common to most startups. Imho absolute loners are dangerous to startups.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#127

Post by Shengster »

smackfu wrote: post #100
cletus wrote: post #44

This is something that varies depending on scale. I work for Google in one of the larger offices (New York). Here we have several cafeterias. You go at anytime (in the meal times), take what you want, eat it there or eat it at your desk. You can eat with team mates, by yourself, with friends from other teams, with random strangers or whatever. I love this for several reasons: 1. There is obviously the cost aspect (no…

Do you go home earlier because of the time saved?

I'm curious about this too. I'd imagine the motivation for saving this much time would be to go home earlier to see your kids or something.

Otherwise, I'd rather spend those thirty minutes interacting with my co-workers and relaxing.

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#128

Post by thenduks »

kaitnieks wrote: post #83

You can achieve the same effect with smoking pauses: 1. your mouth isn't stuffed and you can and want to talk during smoking. It's reflexive - as soon as you light the cigarette you're looking for a conversation; 2. you have more pauses per day; 3. the pauses are shorter; Are there any downsides? Well, some say it's unhealthy... Anyway, I'm not smoking anymore, but back when I was, we solved lots of problems and came…

Yea I think you hit the problem with that at the end there. Besides killing you it's also:

1. Expensive

2. Stinky

3. Addictive

:)

Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch

#130

Post by antiterra »

tomstuart wrote: post #32
puls wrote: post #21

I think Joel's article glosses over a point that most of the con arguments here don't notice: in order for this to work, you have to set up a group of coworkers who mesh spectacularly well. Fog Creek has pretty obviously done that; it's one of their top priorities. I've worked at companies where lunch is communal and companies where it isn't, and it seems to me that the difference has less to do with personality type…

This is unfair. Extroverts are energised by social interaction, but introverts are drained by it, so they're going to find mandatory group lunches tiring and unpleasant in the long term regardless of the cohesion of the group. So perhaps that's what "cohesion" really means in this context: hire a bunch of extroverts. Bully for Joel.

It's not even that simple.

There are introverted people who are largely introverted because they find the dance of formal social interaction puzzling or unrewarding. Once that's taken care of for them, they're perfectly happy interacting with others and crave being social.

Then there are sorts who are fine with social interaction but rebel against perceived social obligation or pressure to enjoy or do something. They become angry at this pressure and instead choose to alienate themselves.

I don't think I'm necessarily in the last group. However, I bristle at the idea of not being able to have my own personal time to daydream without interruption while I cram food into my fat idiot face.

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