Headline: we're so polarized! How awful wrings hands Body: Republicans are bad Republicans are bad Republicans are bad Republicans are bad Republicans are bad Republicans are bad I don't even have a problem with a certain amount of contempt for Republicans, or at least their politicians. It's just, if you pretend to be concerned about polarization in the abstract, you might try harder to pretend to be concerned about…
The word "republican" appears 6 times in the article. The word "democrat" 10.
New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
111–120 of 171 posts
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Twitter can only make meagre attempts to censor. They can stop something from “trending” or whatever. But if you want to hear from independent journalists and researchers and analysts, Twitter lets you do that, and short of shutting down the entire service, it’s unstoppable.
Twitter blocked the nation's oldest and 4th-largest newspaper, the New York Post, for 16 days. This was election interference. Twitter's CEO was called to testify about it in front of congress, where he falsely claimed that the New York Post wasn't blocked. Ted Cruz called him out on the matter, pointing out that lying in sworn testimony to congress is a felony, and the New York Post got unblocked an hour later. The…
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#113But, the vocal minority and ideologues aren't going to disengage. If all those who recognize illusion refuse to retain territory in the cultural and political dialog then the social media landscape would only be populated by the uninitiated and those who seek to initiate them into echo chambers. Those who have discernment enough to be frustrated by the hypocrisies and bias on social media are precisely the people who can de-escalate and bring more balance, reason and rationality to it.
The problem is then that the moderate voices are drowned out, censored, or out-right abused off the platforms (if not by actual people, but by droves of carefully coordinated bots). That leads to a larger discussion of the role of these platforms in societal discourse (or as the town square) and their woefully inadequate protections of free speech and privacy.
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, we are all human after all. But that's becoming more and more difficult. The divide between the left and the right is no longer revolving around ideology, politics, regulation, laws, etc. It's now become a matter of "life and death", "racism" and "violence" for a large chunk of the Left (and to some extent more and more from the Right too if I'm being honest). The slogans that are emerging are being sponged…
What I see anecdotally is that the left has become more inclusive, and the right as become more extreme. People have fled the right either to no party or to the center left. That leaves behind the extremes on the right which have become emboldened by Trump and their shrinking bubble. It's like evaporating water out of a glass of salt water. The water left behind becomes more and more salty. If you have ever had a sal…
I think there are some on the right who have become more extreme, but I interpret this as a reflex against a rapidly growing extreme leftism (apologies to anyone offended by this term; I don’t mean it as a value judgment as much as a literalism). I’m a liberal, personally, and I certainly feel like the left is moving quickly leftward. I feel this way because there are a lot of people who call moderate liberals “Nazis” and “white supremacists” and so on. To give another example, 10 years ago I couldn’t imagine the media uncritically accepting the BLM racial narrative without asking about whether we should consider violent crime rates when we talk about disproportions in police killings (which isn’t to say that the BLM folks wouldn’t have a good, enlightening response). Maybe I’m wrong, but it certainly feels like a significant leftward shift. It also feels like the extreme left are less tolerant than most of the rest of the spectrum, and they even kind of own up to it by arguing that their intolerance is necessary to prevent other intolerance (Paradox of Tolerance); however, in many cases, their intolerance is marshaled against people who can’t credibly be considered “intolerant”—the Hispanic utility worker who was fired after a left-wing Twitter mob accused him of white supremacy for accidentally making an “ok sign” with his hand while cracking his knuckles, or the professor who was suspended for saying a Mandarin phrase (even prefacing that it was a mandarin phrase) that sounded vaguely like the N word, or the journalist who was almost fired for interviewing a black man, or the data scientist who was fired for quoting a prominent black researcher’s research on the efficacy of nonviolent protests, or etc etc etc. These people don’t seem intolerant to me, and yet they are met with intolerance.
My more controversial opinion is that this behavior drives some people to the far right. While I think Trump provokes these leftists and thus creates more far-right-wingers, I think this effect predates him and indeed his very viability as a political candidate couldn’t have happened without the earlier rise of extreme leftism. I could be wrong here, but this explanation jives with much of what I see. Note that this doesn’t absolve anyone of moving to the far right, but it’s important to try to understand the dynamics at play. Notably, if I’m right about the dynamics, the best way to combat the far right is by moderating the left.
> You mention racism. The same people may have been racist before, but now they are ok yelling it out loud because the only people left in their bubble think the same way (Trump may or may not be racist, but he certainly stokes this fire). And this is why it's difficult, because if someone tells me they do not want black people living in their neighborhood, I'm going to tell them that's a racist statement.
I don’t know many people who would object to that definition of racism. I think people have a problem with more abstract definitions of racism which would encompass our utility worker, journalist, data scientist, and professor examples above and not, for example, people on the left who are opposed to mixed-race relationships and cultural exchange.
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#115Delete your twitter/facebook/reddit account. Seriously! Go do it now! These sites are built with the goal of pushing people into groups that are always angry at each other. Angry polarized groups spend more time on the site and are easier to sell things to. The only thing ignoring this trash will do is make you a happier, more functional person.
It’s possible to (mostly) avoid political stuff on those websites if one wants to, instead of refusing to use the sites completely. Just as an example, I rarely visit r/all, but I do visit specific subreddits that I’m subscribed to like r/privacy, r/pihole, and r/thinkpad. On Facebook, I never browse my newsfeed, but I am a member of a group for my apartment complex in the Stockholm area which lists local events and…
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#116Delete your twitter/facebook/reddit account. Seriously! Go do it now! These sites are built with the goal of pushing people into groups that are always angry at each other. Angry polarized groups spend more time on the site and are easier to sell things to. The only thing ignoring this trash will do is make you a happier, more functional person.
People in social media spend several hours per day following politics but almost nobody of them is engaged in any real political work. They are engaging with politics to satisfy our own emotional needs and intellectual curiosities. That’s political hobbyism/consumerism. It's not different from being sports fan. Making noise from the couch but not having no effect in the game and annoying people who don't follow. They…
"wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their own government" Thomas Jefferson (https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/60.html)
Engaging in the political dialogue is not wasted energy. Low level engagement on social media might be about as impactful as filling a stadium to see a politician speak during a pandemic but high level engagement is really the only way to participate in American democracy right now. If it wasn't valuable, nobody would be training bots to disrupt the process by amplifying division and hate.
Sane politicians aren't going door to door these days or standing on crowded street corners. They're interacting on social media.
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#117Delete your twitter/facebook/reddit account. Seriously! Go do it now! These sites are built with the goal of pushing people into groups that are always angry at each other. Angry polarized groups spend more time on the site and are easier to sell things to. The only thing ignoring this trash will do is make you a happier, more functional person.
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Twitter can only make meagre attempts to censor. They can stop something from “trending” or whatever. But if you want to hear from independent journalists and researchers and analysts, Twitter lets you do that, and short of shutting down the entire service, it’s unstoppable.
Twitter blocked the nation's oldest and 4th-largest newspaper, the New York Post, for 16 days. This was election interference. Twitter's CEO was called to testify about it in front of congress, where he falsely claimed that the New York Post wasn't blocked. Ted Cruz called him out on the matter, pointing out that lying in sworn testimony to congress is a felony, and the New York Post got unblocked an hour later. The…
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not joking. Is it your opinion that there were no attempts, from within the agencies, to undermine the president (or his campaign) and that there is nothing corrupt about what the Biden family has been up to?
I'm not going to get sucked down this rabbit hole because there are a zillion other sites where you can have this specific argument, but I will say that if you're voting for Trump because you're anti- corruption then you and I have world views too far diverged for any meaningful communication to take place.
Re: New political polarization casts rivals as alien, unlikable, contemptible
#120Peoples willingness to line up behind banners, flags and slogans without bothering to look at what those politicians are actually selling baffles me. I think if people from both sides were willing to ignore that and just sit down and talk about what kind of county they want to live in they would find they have a lot more in common than they think. I think this is what the article is proposing, and I think I agree wit…
I think I'm starting to realize why sport was pushed so hard until the 00s. It is complete nonsense that you can get your tribalism out on without impacting any part of your life. Imagine how much better the world would be if people checked game scores instead of tweets.
From chariot races to football clubs, real politic change happens through sports.
Here's an account of the famous chariot race riot in ancient Constantinople:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots
Humans will make an identity group worth dying for over anything.