Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#21

Post by bitwize » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:30 AM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #13

Apple's choice of "buggy behavior without notification" over interoperability of parts with a permanent "non-Apple part" notice is a clear signal of intent. This is not a security issue - this is locking out 3rd party repair in a way that sows doubt in people who attempt these repairs (with "buggy" behavior present after replacement).

If you had a pirated copy of Autodesk 3D Studio (before MAX, for DOS), everything would work and appear normal. But eventually, the geometry of your models would become corrupted -- subtly at first, then with continued use each model would become a spiky mess, like a fruit fly with an unfortunate hedgehog gene mutation.

IHVs and ISVs can have subtle ways of punishing you for using their products in a manner not explicitly authorized. If you do not like the terms, do not buy the product.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#22

Post by adrianN » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #6

IMO it’s more direct to ask companies to be responsible for their externalities than it is to ask for repairability.

It's infinitely harder to accurately put a dollar cost on externalities than to check whether a piece of hardware can be repaired.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#23

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:38 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #22

threatofrain wrote: post #6

IMO it’s more direct to ask companies to be responsible for their externalities than it is to ask for repairability.

It's infinitely harder to accurately put a dollar cost on externalities than to check whether a piece of hardware can be repaired.

It’s tricky in some cases, but consumer electronics are actually pretty easy because most of the harm done is during manufacture (Apple estimates that more than 75% of an iPhone’s emissions come from manufacture). You could either expect Apple to pay for the externalities at production, or mandate that they’re required to accept back all dead Apple electronics and recycle them at a specific standard.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#24

Post by adrianN » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:49 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #23

adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's infinitely harder to accurately put a dollar cost on externalities than to check whether a piece of hardware can be repaired.

It’s tricky in some cases, but consumer electronics are actually pretty easy because most of the harm done is during manufacture (Apple estimates that more than 75% of an iPhone’s emissions come from manufacture). You could either expect Apple to pay for the externalities at production, or mandate that they’re required to accept back all dead Apple electronics and recycle them at a specific standard.

Even assuming that CO2 is the only relevant externality here (and not, say, electronic waste, mining runoff, chemicals used during manufacturing...), we don't have accurate models that can tell you a dollar cost per ton CO2. Estimates I've seen range from "climate change is not real" to 600 Euros.

On the other hand you only have to disassemble an iPhone and check the availability of replacement parts to see whether it's repairable or not. It's easy to say exactly what damage can be repaired and what not. Very little room for discussion.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#25

Post by deadbunny » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:49 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #21

OrwellianChild wrote: post #13

Apple's choice of "buggy behavior without notification" over interoperability of parts with a permanent "non-Apple part" notice is a clear signal of intent. This is not a security issue - this is locking out 3rd party repair in a way that sows doubt in people who attempt these repairs (with "buggy" behavior present after replacement).

If you had a pirated copy of Autodesk 3D Studio (before MAX, for DOS), everything would work and appear normal. But eventually, the geometry of your models would become corrupted -- subtly at first, then with continued use each model would become a spiky mess, like a fruit fly with an unfortunate hedgehog gene mutation. IHVs and ISVs can have subtle ways of punishing you for using their products in a manner not expli…

How is pirating software and repairing a device you have purchased comparable?

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#26

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:18 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #3

I think the story isn't the end of the repairable iPhone. It's about the end of the consumer (or consumer segment) who cares enough to vote with their dollars for repairability more than new functionality and price. We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

Actually I think most users would vote for a more reliable device over a repairable one. If using more glue means getting the phone wet is less likely to damage it or stops it breaking when dropped then that's a good tradoff. The fact my aging phone is still getting updates is more important than being able to replace the camera.

I tend to buy my devices second hand so knowing it's difficult for a repairer to use sub standard parts is also good.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#27

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:21 AM UTC

fouc wrote: post #11

I have mixed feelings about this. I can see the need for security but at same time I can see why the big companies love to pursue "security", it gives them an incredible opportunity to exert even more control.

I'm going to guess that spare parts and repairs are a net loss for Apple. It's a cost of doing business.

What they don't want is shody spares and repairs sullying their image.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#28

Post by nerbert » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #3

I think the story isn't the end of the repairable iPhone. It's about the end of the consumer (or consumer segment) who cares enough to vote with their dollars for repairability more than new functionality and price. We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

Wait until the EU commission hears about it. I have a feeling that they’re not going to let this fly.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#29

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:26 AM UTC

deadbunny wrote: post #25

bitwize wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had a pirated copy of Autodesk 3D Studio (before MAX, for DOS), everything would work and appear normal. But eventually, the geometry of your models would become corrupted -- subtly at first, then with continued use each model would become a spiky mess, like a fruit fly with an unfortunate hedgehog gene mutation. IHVs and ISVs can have subtle ways of punishing you for using their products in a manner not expli…

How is pirating software and repairing a device you have purchased comparable?

evidently under this theory the important thing is what the company wants.

on edit: /not supporting viewpoint, just identifying it.

Re: Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

#30

Post by vladvasiliu » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #3

I think the story isn't the end of the repairable iPhone. It's about the end of the consumer (or consumer segment) who cares enough to vote with their dollars for repairability more than new functionality and price. We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

> We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

While I agree with this on principle, to me it looks like it gives the collective us an agency which I would argue isn't really there in that not enough people consider it as a factor.

I think that many people don't really care. As another commenter said, people seem to care more about "specs" (like in the commenter's example with people preferring Samsung phones because of the bigger screens) and about having the latest phone.

This makes me wonder what percentage of people actually have to repair their phones, and of those, how many would have opted to do it themselves with off-brand components.

While I understand the philosophical concerns around repairability and mostly like my laptops to be repairable, I also get the feeling that for phones it only now may become important, if at all, because of their usable life.

My previous phone was a Galaxy S5, with a user replaceable battery. A new Samsung battery from a reputable store (not Amazon) costed 50-60 €. A battery replacement for the iphone costs 70 € at an authorised shop (I'm in Paris, France). I know I could have used an "alternative brand" battery in the GS5, but after a terrible experience with such a battery for a camera, I wouldn't go through that again.

Now I understand that this or that model may have design issues which would have random components fail prematurely. But I doubt that replacing the component with an off-brand one would be that great. I'd consider that model a lemon and avoid it. Even if it would be simple, I'd hate to have to replace my phone's [x] every two weeks.