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Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

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Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#141

Post by eloisius »

smaryjerry wrote: post #136
eloisius wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree about sunlight being the best disinfectant, but I think social media like Facebook is a little more insidious than just "increased exposure." Facebook is designed for targeted messaging to people who are likely to engage with it. We've known about filter bubbles for at least a decade now. Amplifying disinformation specifically to an audience that is vulnerable to it is different than airing it on TV and incre…

I disagree that people are vulnerable to it. I honestly can’t think of a single Facebook ad that has ever changed my mind in a topic. Adults are not vulnerable. The point is is so identify and catch the people who are posting conspiracies and getting radicalized before they do something. You can do that if you don’t see it. I doubt some random reader gets radicalized simply from reading things and never engaging in c…

I'm not gravely worried about the ads themselves. They definitely bother me, but I'm more worried by "organic" content. It's really the algorithmically curated feeds that I see being harmful. My dad has always been kind of wing-nutty, but it was localized. He was suspicious about things like Ruby Ridge and the Waco Siege when I was a kid. Now he is constantly repeating some garbage meme he encountered on FB. He is completely steeped in disinfo, and actively seeks out more of it by joining basically any FB group named something like "Real Trump Patriot Boat Lovers" and entices him with a meme about locking up the Clintons. If I watch him use it on his iPad, his feed is just torrent of crap, most of it endorsed by his friends and self-selected bubble. That's the harm, he was susceptible to disinfo to begin with, but now with the social proof that all his friends agree, they are escalating to more and more radical shit. At this point they're all saying how they won't stand for another inch of Corona rules and the governor is about to have an uprising on their hands. We don't even have any Corona restrictions in my state, but he's radicalized against them regardless.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#142

Post by Jommi »

throw0101a wrote: post #90
sgdesign wrote: post #7

One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. I almost feel like it was an excess of idealism and belief in “the free market of ideas” -as well as the idea that Facebook should remain a neutral party at all cost- that led to overcompensating in the wrong direction, a…

> One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. $$$ Does it have to be more complicated than that?

Seems like pretty bad long term $$$ move if it results in FB getting dismantled or regulated to hell.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#143

Post by RickJWagner »

Everything is a Super Spreader of Election Misinformation.

I remember when Trump won in 2016, CNN immediately turned it's theme black and ran gloomy headlines that continue until this very day.

Likewise, other news sources went into spin mode, seemingly faster than they did pre-Trump. Actors and athletes became media stars not for their area of expertise but for their political opinions (which should be worth exactly the same as the bartender's but the bartender doesn't make the news for some reason.)

I agree that Facebook is a huge platform for politics. The difference is that you can post your own views and you can indicate if you like or dislike someone else's opinions.

I think it's actually progress.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#144

Post by rendall »

cloverich wrote: post #123
rendall wrote: post #24

Frustrating. At the same time, I all too often see claims of "fake news" or "disinformation" that which is simply embarrassing or inconvenient for one party or the other. I'm not sure that there is a way to solve this problem that will not cause worse problems, like censorship of good but unpopular notions, or notions that are true but annoy the powerful

Its not fake news if its true but inconvenient, so there's a pretty firm line there. There are plenty of recent examples of legitimately fake and (intentionally) misleading content that has been propagated on Facebook, I assume anyone with any right wing friends has been inundated with it. But in addition to that, the simple protection against censoring true notions that annoy the powerful is transparency. Complete t…

"Its not fake news if its true but inconvenient, so there's a pretty firm line there."

I agree that truth is a pretty firm line, but discerning that truth and agreeing on it is a very, very squishy line. Discerning what's true is arguably the most difficult task we can face, philosophically speaking

No matter how many well-meaning people agree that some assertion A is false, if they are wrong and have the authority to suppress it, then they have committed the injustice of censorship.

Even with the scientific method, which I believe is the best method ever invented for discerning truth, there have been many, many times that the scientific consensus has been, not only wrong, but egregiously, arrogantly wrong. Any time throughout history that authorities have been allowed to suppress what they believed to be false - and they often had excellent reasons for believing so - they invariably and inevitably suppress ideas that turn out to be true.

Throwing AI at the problem is just adding another layer of misdirection. It's not going to be better this time in spite of all of the other times just because an AI decides it

No, personally speaking, I think we will have a much, much healthier society if we can just learn to live with the fact that people believe stupid things and they will always believe stupid things even when you try to hide the stupid things from them. I know that I believe things that are both wrong and stupid, I just don't know which things. If everyone could acknowledge that they probably hold at least some wrong and stupid ideas, we would all be a little bit more humble about banishing other peoples' wrong and stupid ideas.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#145

Post by wdr1 »

sveme wrote: post #45
harwoodleon wrote: post #9

It’s baked into the business model. Attention is the main material of the business, however it is gotten. It can’t change. Facebook couldn’t afford for it to change.

That's actually always a good guidance: What's the business model/the aim of a company? Does it align with my own aims and wishes? It's the basic difference between Google/Facebook and Apple. Google/Facebook sells ads, Apple sells hardware. Google/Facebook need to know as much as possible about you to sell more ads. Apple does not. Obviously, these things can change.

> Apple sells hardware

That's a very limited view of Apple.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#146

Post by botverse »

throw0101a wrote: post #89
izacus wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, why did Apple ads start showing in iOS? There's now a promotion for Apples services in iOS 14 settings, we're getting notifications about Apple arcade things, the Apple Ads tracking setting is ON by default and split from 3rd party ad tracking settings... Not to mention their actions like political censorship (just from today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24939717 ) Your narrative fits Apple m…

> If that's true, why did Apple ads start showing in iOS? Just because Apple does things besides sell hardware, doesn't mean those other things are their primary focus. "Services" make up 'only' 22% of their revenue: * https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/10/apple-q4-2020-results-rec... I'd hazard to guess that App stores, Music, Pay, and TV make up the majority of revenues—and not ads.

It depends of where they find growth to be at

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#147

Post by throw0101a »

Jommi wrote: post #142
throw0101a wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. $$$ Does it have to be more complicated than that?

Seems like pretty bad long term $$$ move if it results in FB getting dismantled or regulated to hell.

Zuck may have cashed out by then.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#148

Post by D0nMalte »

mrkeen wrote: post #28
unmdplyr wrote: post #2

> When a Utah county accidentally sent out 13,000 absentee ballots without a signature line, the NewsGuard Red-rated site LawEnforcementToday.com called this a "cheat-by-mail scheme." This isn't a Facebook problem as such. It's just sensationalistic journalism. Just that Facebook as a platform helps amplfiy it. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, it was just sensationalistic journalism, or "election misinformation". And Facebook just helped amplify or "spread" it.

They could be more open to solutions like the optical highlighting that twitter has implemented, even if it just says "caution" it could be a big game changer

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#149

Post by Jommi »

throw0101a wrote: post #147
Jommi wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like pretty bad long term $$$ move if it results in FB getting dismantled or regulated to hell.

Zuck may have cashed out by then.

You really think he's ready to give up that power?

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#150

Post by smaryjerry »

eloisius wrote: post #141
smaryjerry wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that people are vulnerable to it. I honestly can’t think of a single Facebook ad that has ever changed my mind in a topic. Adults are not vulnerable. The point is is so identify and catch the people who are posting conspiracies and getting radicalized before they do something. You can do that if you don’t see it. I doubt some random reader gets radicalized simply from reading things and never engaging in c…

I'm not gravely worried about the ads themselves. They definitely bother me, but I'm more worried by "organic" content. It's really the algorithmically curated feeds that I see being harmful. My dad has always been kind of wing-nutty, but it was localized. He was suspicious about things like Ruby Ridge and the Waco Siege when I was a kid. Now he is constantly repeating some garbage meme he encountered on FB. He is co…

I know this is late but maybe your Facebook feed is different from mine. Mine only shows people I follow and advertisements. I don’t get any other content. Twitter on the other hand constantly recommends related people to those I follow and shows their tweets.
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