A well written portrait of a truly great and original "Scientist" in the true sense of the term. I have always wondered why his approach of constructing correctness proof along with the implementation never really caught on. I think it was what allowed him to come up with his novel algorithms. Have we lost something of the real essence of logical thinking here? Perhaps the paper mentioned in the article; Social Proce…
Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
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Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#62Not that I don't wish it were otherwise. I love the beauty of mathematics and do wish software were more elegant.
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#63Somehow this gives me the impression he is a bit overrated, and he somehow developed a bit of cult-like following.
Not at all true. The Dutch are famously known to be blunt and direct which seems to be a national trait(eg: https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/dutch-culture-brutal... ). Think of Dijkstra as Sherlock Holmes thought of himself; viz. My dear Watson,” said he, “I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one’s self…
But you see the same with Linus Thorvalds. His tone offends a lot of people in particular Americans.
But as a fellow Nordic I think the passive aggressiveness often observed in America or fake politeness more difficult to deal with.
Of course Dijkstra and Linus are quite different personalities but both suffer from an English speaking majority thinking their concepts of proper etiquette is universal.
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#64It is remarkable how much he contravened modern academic norms: no work to bring in external funding, relatively few papers, very little collaboration, almost no PhD students. It's not an exaggeration to say that a young researcher with these characteristics today would likely get fired from any high-ranked American research university before even coming up for tenure review. Perhaps our modern academic metrics of me…
"The Humble Programmer" is an exercise in self-mockery, as Dijkstra has always been very conscious of the value of his work. https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD03xx/EWD340...
That said, I don't know about self-mockery. A good line from the linked lecture transcript:
> The competent programmer is fully aware of the strictly limited size of his own skull; therefore he approaches the programming task in full humility, and among other things he avoids clever tricks like the plague.
He seems to be addressing the issue of inflated egos influencing people to be "real programmers". For example, do you use a simple GUI interface? -- HA! I can type an arcane string into a command line with my TOES! Clearly, I art teh superior to thou. Which is stupid, because a proper GUI that shows the full scope of the API is awesome, while memorizing arcane strings is a silly practice. But, some folks let feelings of intellectual superiority cloud their judgement and beliefs, which Dijkstra was speaking out against.
He repeats this theme several times, with the overall lecture being a tad repetitive and redundant as it states the same thing over and over in a repetitive series of repetitions, but for a specific example:
> Finally, although the subject is not a pleasant one, I must mention PL/1, a programming language for which the defining documentation is of a frightening size and complexity. Using PL/1 must be like flying a plane with 7000 buttons, switches and handles to manipulate in the cockpit. I absolutely fail to see how we can keep our growing programs firmly within our intellectual grip when by its sheer baroqueness the programming language —our basic tool, mind you!— already escapes our intellectual control. And if I have to describe the influence PL/1 can have on its users, the closest metaphor that comes to my mind is that of a drug.
In short, Dijkstra strongly advocates intellectual minimalism. The "humility" he advocates is fortitude against ego-driven peacockery in decision-making; taking the simplest possible approach, that's the easiest to do, even when doing so doesn't show off one's intellect.
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#65It is remarkable how much he contravened modern academic norms: no work to bring in external funding, relatively few papers, very little collaboration, almost no PhD students. It's not an exaggeration to say that a young researcher with these characteristics today would likely get fired from any high-ranked American research university before even coming up for tenure review. Perhaps our modern academic metrics of me…
People used to say of my alma mater that the teaching was decent but the facilities were amazing. There was a feel on campus that the people who were really going to 'make it' were only putting in B- or C+ work and spending the rest of their time working on side projects. There were very few days in a given year when more than half of the computer labs were full at the same time, and with Unix boxes you can always re…
Dijkstra spent a good chunk of the latter part of his career at the University of Texas in Austin. There was plenty of access to facilities there, but that wasn't really what his research was about. He wrote longhand (scans here: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/) and didn't really use much technology directly in his work.
This makes sense, because after all, Dijkstra is responsible for this famous quote: "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes".
https://www.quora.com/What-did-Dijkstra-mean-when-he-said-Co...
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#66Arrogance in computer science is measured in nano-dijkstra. - Alan Kay
"This quote keeps on showing up out of context. Edsger and I got along quite well." - Alan Kay https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11796926
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#67What are the greatest advances in CS of the last decade?
The older I get the harder it is to time-slot things, but I can think of a few things where much of the interesting work happened in the last ten years (similar to how a lot of pivotal work on GC algorithms happened in the late 90's). Most of the good work on escape analysis started around ~2010 Rust got us rolling on borrow semantics (I have a feeling the '20s will be remembered as the the golden age) I'm sure there…
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#68It is remarkable how much he contravened modern academic norms: no work to bring in external funding, relatively few papers, very little collaboration, almost no PhD students. It's not an exaggeration to say that a young researcher with these characteristics today would likely get fired from any high-ranked American research university before even coming up for tenure review. Perhaps our modern academic metrics of me…
> It's not an exaggeration to say that a young researcher with these characteristics today would likely get fired from any high-ranked American research university before even coming up for tenure review. He wouldn't even get in an university to get the chance to be fired. And that's not specific to the US, it applies to nearly all developed or developing countries. That person wouldn't be able to get much past a PhD…
Also, by some miracle you manage to graduate by minimal publishing or no publications you will find all doors to getting research funding shut. This means that you are basically unemployable as a tenure track professor (universities prefer their newly minted assistant professors to come with funding).
Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#69Re: Edsger Dijkstra – The Man Who Carried Computer Science on His Shoulders
#70It is remarkable how much he contravened modern academic norms: no work to bring in external funding, relatively few papers, very little collaboration, almost no PhD students. It's not an exaggeration to say that a young researcher with these characteristics today would likely get fired from any high-ranked American research university before even coming up for tenure review. Perhaps our modern academic metrics of me…
That reminds me of the anecdote where one of Google’s hiring committees realized that they wouldn’t have gotten hired had they been judged by their own standards. It makes you wonder how much talent gets filtered out when we apply very stringent metrics to grade candidates.