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Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

npr.org

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Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#131

Post by aww_dang »

StillBored wrote: post #58
shadowgovt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be wealth redistribution, which a critical mass of Americans are pathologically opposed to.

And weirdly enough, frequently ones that receive the largest proportion of it are the ones most against it. Both at the federal level, where generally the money is redistributed from the coasts to the "heartland", to at the local level where the cities heavily support the rural schools, roads, and general infrastructure. Even semi-private industries like telcom services are heavily funded through things like the univ…

>And weirdly enough, frequently ones that receive the largest proportion of it are the ones most against it

Why is it weird for someone to resent regulatory conditions that necessitate dependence on a handout?

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#132

Post by WhompingWindows »

From NPR: "After more than 45 years as a listed species, the gray wolf has exceeded all conservation goals for recovery," said Interior Secretary David Bernhardt

And who is this Secretary judging biological metrics? A former coal and oil industry lobbyist and lawyer, no biological training.

He was on the board at CESAR, which is a purportedly "scientific" organization that takes huge donations from fossil fuel and conservative interests. CESAR is known to have funded climate denialism, and they seem to be intent on filing lawsuits against environmental causes.

Why is it that conservatives are so motivated to not conserve the nature they see around them?

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#133

Post by ip26 »

ainiriand wrote: post #8
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

I'm not a hunter, but hunting does provide a revenue stream for wildlife protection & management. Presence of wolf tags might also make the presence of wolves more acceptable to both hunters and ranchers.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#134

Post by josefresco »

floren wrote: post #26
ainiriand wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

They were not erased by the modern hunter, but by farmers who didn't want them eating their sheep and, in many cases, by professional wolf-killers hired by states . The renowned conservation writer Aldo Leopold's earliest work was killing bears, wolves, and mountain lions for the forest service. Unfortunately it wasn't until we'd nearly erased wolves and grizzlies (cougars have always been too wily to be wiped out) t…

While you are correct that modern hunters are not to blame. Eradication by farmers was actually the final straw to an otherwise stressed population that had already lost a majority of it's natural habitat.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#135

Post by torpfactory »

Filligree wrote: post #109
perbu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway we pay ranchers for sheep which are taken by wolves. They still really hate wolves. More sheep are taken by wolverines, lynx and bears yet the ranches are still keen on full extermination of the wolf population.

It's not unreasonable. Wolves are among the few predators that can and will attack humans . That the wolves, themselves, now have a deep-set fear of humanity and would only dare to do so if they're desperate and starving... is a distant second to that same deep-set cultural fear of wolves. Unpopular Opinion Time: The ecosystem damage from not having apex predators is large enough that it might be worth a few human li…

Wolves by and large do not attack humans:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_Nort...

We might be afraid of them but that fear isn’t grounded in reality.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#136

Post by hiimtroymclure »

HappySweeney wrote: post #104
chrisco255 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my talks with Montanans, the main reason some of them don't like the wolves is because the Elk population went down after their reintroduction.

Wasn't that the point? The elk were eating everything down to the nubs.

You could also open up more elk tags. Plenty of hunters more than happy to take down a bull and have a packed freezer. Lottery systems to pull tags are not easy, especially for out of state folks.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#137

Post by yaypolitics »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #127
Filligree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable. Wolves are among the few predators that can and will attack humans . That the wolves, themselves, now have a deep-set fear of humanity and would only dare to do so if they're desperate and starving... is a distant second to that same deep-set cultural fear of wolves. Unpopular Opinion Time: The ecosystem damage from not having apex predators is large enough that it might be worth a few human li…

Is there a citation for a single attack on a human? I'd looked before, some years back, and was unable to find any.

No. A wolf has never attacked a human. They’re our friends. :)

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#138

Post by ip26 »

chmod600 wrote: post #118
linguistbreaker wrote: post #90

I've never understood why ranchers get so much clout in the US.

They might equally be wondering why city dwellers have so much say over how ranchers should tend to livestock.

You can't graze your livestock on public land and then act confused when the public has a say.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#140

Post by eloff »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #127
Filligree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable. Wolves are among the few predators that can and will attack humans . That the wolves, themselves, now have a deep-set fear of humanity and would only dare to do so if they're desperate and starving... is a distant second to that same deep-set cultural fear of wolves. Unpopular Opinion Time: The ecosystem damage from not having apex predators is large enough that it might be worth a few human li…

Is there a citation for a single attack on a human? I'd looked before, some years back, and was unable to find any.

There were a couple attacks here in Canada just this year.

It's very rare but it happens.

One guy was dragged out of his tent by a wolf while camping with his two kids and wife. That's extremely rare.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/wolf-attack-rampart-c...

There are also hunters that go missing in areas where there aren't known to be other predators. Some of those cases might be wolves.

There are also cases where we find the remains of a hunter surrounded by dead wolves that he'd shot in a savage fight to the death that he lost.

Again, it's rare. The most dangerous large mammal apart from us in North America is deer, because of people killed hitting them in cars or swerving to avoid them. More wolves might improve that.

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