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Why we need an Open Wireless movement

eff.org

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#11
When my kid was a teenager and had a laptop, I wanted to impose a "no internet after 10pm" rule. I could turn off my router easily enough, but I had to ask a couple of neighbors to secure their network. They were happy to help. One of them needed technical assistance, which I was more than happy to provide.

Now there are smartphones. That certainly poses a problem that I am grateful not having to deal with anymore.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#12
"Our failure to work together prevents us from enjoying better, more widespread Internet access."

I almost didn't manage to read further. The same can be said about so many things (if everyone just took or borrowed what he needed in a responsible manner, we wouldn't need money at all... to name the most utopian example), yet this kind of reasoning simply doesn't work, as has been shown both practically and theoretically (from game theory to "selfish gene").

It makes me always kind of sad to see smart and enthusiastic people not to grasp this simple fact.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#13

This seems like a non-issue to me, especially in the age of smartphones with personal wifi hotspot abilities.

The problem is that not everyone can afford that. In fact, almost no one can afford that. The internet as a whole is only viable because of vastly pooled resources - it could never have happened on a "my slice, get off my lawn" basis. Even if you can afford it, you're being vastly overcharged compared to a decentralized network. One that already exists in many areas, most of it is already fully painted with WiFi supposing people could actually all use it.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#14
post #7

Too little, too late. Free Wifi was interesting a decade ago. Nowadays in most countries 3G is so cheap that nobody bothers trying to find an open access point. I currently pay 4 Euros per Gigabyte per month (or optionally 9 Euros for 9 Gigabytes) - that's all, no other monthly fees, no minimum charges, can be (optionally) combined with a voice plan. And in addition most newer laptops provide (optional) builtin 3G mo…

How does 4 Euros/GB on 3G replace free, faster wifi at my favorite coffee shop?

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#15
post #2

I'm all for open Wi-Fi networks but I'm not quite sure how it's a "tragedy of the commons". People locking their Wi-Fi network aren't harming other users of the RF spectrum, which is the common resource. The resource being locked out is the telco's backhaul, which isn't really a commons, is it?

RF isn't the commons they're talking about. The commons is the open access points that people would come by and torrent / download kiddie porn through. People abused open access points, so everyone started closing them.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#16
post #2

I'm all for open Wi-Fi networks but I'm not quite sure how it's a "tragedy of the commons". People locking their Wi-Fi network aren't harming other users of the RF spectrum, which is the common resource. The resource being locked out is the telco's backhaul, which isn't really a commons, is it?

The resource is internet access everywhere. Everyone benefits from open wifi, but any individual benefits by locking down their own wifi. So everyone locks down their own wifi, and nobody has internet access, and we're all worse off.

I'm not sure it's a tragedy of the commons per se, but it's a collective action problem of one sort or another.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#17
post #3

I'm not sure how making your wireless network open is the "socially responsible" thing to do anymore then letting strangers come in and use your bathroom at will is. Sure, most people won't cause any harm, but it only takes one asshole (or too many people taking advantage) to make it a nightmare for you.

FWIW, I believe the idea is to segment the network so you are sharing your bandwidth, but not your "home network."

A closer analogy would be letting strangers use the outhouse on your property, but not letting them in the house.

The router used by Numericable here in France offers a "guest WiFi" connection out of the box. It is not enabled by default, mind you, but it is available nonetheless.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#18
I get where the EFF is coming from. From a technical standpoint, the notion that "WiFi everywhere" could be delivered easily if everyone just opened their networks is sound, but their arguments trivialize a lot of the consequences. Take this gem:

"...a desire to prevent their neighbors from "free riding" on their connections; and a fear that unencrypted WiFi is a security or privacy risk. Both of those reasons have a degree of legitimacy..."

A degree of legitimacy? The article goes on to state that the risks inherent to untrusted network access have "other solutions", but that's a pretty bold statement. Good security is about layers. If you don't want people snooping on your network communications, you need layered security.

Their proposed solution of link-layer security is cool and all, but it's a long ways off. There was a time when I was all about open networks for the common good, but the whole Firesheep fiasco changed my tune pretty quickly.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#19
post #2

I'm all for open Wi-Fi networks but I'm not quite sure how it's a "tragedy of the commons". People locking their Wi-Fi network aren't harming other users of the RF spectrum, which is the common resource. The resource being locked out is the telco's backhaul, which isn't really a commons, is it?

RF isn't the commons they're talking about. The commons is the open access points that people would come by and torrent / download kiddie porn through. People abused open access points, so everyone started closing them.

People abused open access points, so telcos started going after the hosts, not the abusers, so everyone started closing them.

Then there's also Firesheep. But that's just a cherry on top, really.

Re: Why we need an Open Wireless movement

#20
Isn't this what fonera was(is) trying to achieve for some years now? http://corp.fon.com/us/this-is-fon/ .

Anyway, in my home country (europe), with a fiber optic connection plan (80ch tv+net+phone) for about 40€/month you also get 3G connectivity included. In the US I pay ~$35 for 10Mbps rcn internet only.

I used to have my european wifi router open but since everyone in the neighborhood has wifi and the really cheap 3g connectivity is ubiquitous, I ended up setting up wpa.

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